7 ms·

I would suggest they never knew how to use computers. Computers are general purpose devices, which is lost on the general population who only ever need to check

I would suggest they never knew how to use computers. Computers are general purpose devices, which is lost on the general population who only ever need to check emails and post on social media. Smart phones fit this perfectly. Let's leave the general computing devices for people who actually need that power, just like the early days.

alok99 6y ago
Awfully condescending opinion. How about making _general_ computing devices more accessible via UI/UX to the _general_ public? That doesn't seem like such a crazy idea.
- ogre_codes 6y ago
  > How about making _general_ computing devices more accessible via UI/UX to the _general_ public? That's pretty much what the iPad is. A general purpose computing device but easier to use and with tighter security than a PC. At some point you end up sacrificing versatility for accessibility to the masses.
  - type0 6y ago
    Ipad isn't general computing device, it's a smart gadget, same as Smart TV same as IoT lightbulb. This article explains it well: https://hisham.hm/2020/12/10/smart-tech-%e2%80%94-smart-for-whom/ https://hisham.hm/2020/12/10/smart-tech-%e2%80%94-smart-for-...
- 411111111111111 6y ago
  But most people don't need or even want an actual general computing device? It doesn't matter how much you improve it's ui/ux... if it's not a desirable feature to the general population, few will ever use it.
- surge 6y ago
  We did, it resulted in smartphones and tablets, so what the OP is saying applies still. I would argue that's "general" computing now. They finished what the webTV started, providing a basic platform for people who had only very basic needs.
  - Zak 6y ago
    Smartphones and tablets are trying pretty hard not to be general-purpose computers. iOS devices don't run arbitrary user-specified code unless hacked, and many Android devices are designed not to let the user have real admin rights (i.e. root). This seems to be getting worse, for example Google and its financial institution partners have decided that general-purpose computing and payments aren't safe together. Google Pay suddenly started refusing to do contactless payments on my rooted phone.
    - Wh1zz 6y ago
      You can use magisk to keep Google pay working on most phones still. (Works on my pixel 5)
      - Zak 6y ago
        I do use magisk. It started failing safetynet a few days ago, which I discovered as I was trying to make a payment.
    - canofbars 6y ago
      iOS devices can _run_ arbitrary code without being hacked. It just stops working 3 days after being compiled so its good enough for kids to develop on but not good enough to distribute.
  - alisonkisk 6y ago
    That's special purpose for the general public, the opposite of general purpose.
- the_af 6y ago
  > How about making _general_ computing devices more accessible via UI/UX to the _general_ public? While I agree with the sentiment, and some of the complexity is not essential, the adage still applies: "everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler". At some point, "general computing" means there's some irreductible complexity that cannot be made simpler without the device ceasing to be general purpose.
psychoslave 6y ago
Oh yes, let’s leave power to those who know the best, they will make what is right for everybody. History heavily confirm this pattern.
- athriren 6y ago
  amusing how it is nearly always someone in the in-group making this decision, that everyone else does not need or deserve access to something but i do as a member of this group. tale as old as plato “discovering” the ideal form of government was a bunch of philosophers telling everyone else what to do.
  - CodeGlitch 6y ago
    To be in the 'in' group you could always invest the time and learn how to use computers. We're actually a pretty welcoming bunch :)
    - alisonkisk 6y ago
      How can my kid learn if she's not allowed to have a (non-"appliance", general purpose) computer in the first place?
octorian 6y ago
> Let's leave the general computing devices for people who actually need that power, just like the early days. With that attitude, eventually the impact of economies of scale will end up denying us the ability to afford those devices or to use them how we see fit.
- outworlder 6y ago
  Correct. Current computers would become like Lisp Machines. Amazing, but unaffordable for most.
- CodeGlitch 6y ago
  We as a family were able to afford an ARM computer (BBC micro) in the 80s.
  - TeMPOraL 6y ago
    That was on the rising edge of the wave of "computers are awesome and will change everyone's life". We're on the falling edge now. The problem GP refers to is this: making computers is expensive, gets cheaper with economies of scale. But economies of scale are capital-intensive, so they exist only where there's a market for it. The market for people requiring general-purpose computation is small and getting smaller, while the market for constrained computing is only ever bigger. Which means at some point the capital-wielding companies will just leave the market, and the prices of new general-purpose computers will go way, way up. On top of that, computers today gain most of their value interacting with other computers. Once the mainstream usage - like your e-mail or your bank - gets neatly packaged in sandboxed, trust-computing-enabled environments, the utility of your general-purpose platform will plummet. A dark but entirely possible scenario is that it eventually becomes illegal to use general-purpose computers to connect to such services, because "security".
    - alisonkisk 6y ago
      This doesn't really make sense. A general purpose computer isn't expensive. It's just a special purpose computer without the locks added on top.
hootbootscoot 6y ago
the ironic thing is that I program computers for a living yet I cannot achieve the basic functional level of a 5 year old with an Android device...that's not even counting the deliberate dark patterns. I see young ones automatically pinch-zooming stuff right out of the womb, however, so I suspect that it's "just me" having the issues...
srockets 6y ago
Poe's law?

alok99 6y ago

Awfully condescending opinion. How about making _general_ computing devices more accessible via UI/UX to the _general_ public? That doesn't seem like such a crazy idea.

ogre_codes 6y ago
> How about making _general_ computing devices more accessible via UI/UX to the _general_ public? That's pretty much what the iPad is. A general purpose computing device but easier to use and with tighter security than a PC. At some point you end up sacrificing versatility for accessibility to the masses.
- type0 6y ago
  Ipad isn't general computing device, it's a smart gadget, same as Smart TV same as IoT lightbulb. This article explains it well: https://hisham.hm/2020/12/10/smart-tech-%e2%80%94-smart-for-whom/ https://hisham.hm/2020/12/10/smart-tech-%e2%80%94-smart-for-...
411111111111111 6y ago
But most people don't need or even want an actual general computing device? It doesn't matter how much you improve it's ui/ux... if it's not a desirable feature to the general population, few will ever use it.
surge 6y ago
We did, it resulted in smartphones and tablets, so what the OP is saying applies still. I would argue that's "general" computing now. They finished what the webTV started, providing a basic platform for people who had only very basic needs.
- Zak 6y ago
  Smartphones and tablets are trying pretty hard not to be general-purpose computers. iOS devices don't run arbitrary user-specified code unless hacked, and many Android devices are designed not to let the user have real admin rights (i.e. root). This seems to be getting worse, for example Google and its financial institution partners have decided that general-purpose computing and payments aren't safe together. Google Pay suddenly started refusing to do contactless payments on my rooted phone.
  - Wh1zz 6y ago
    You can use magisk to keep Google pay working on most phones still. (Works on my pixel 5)
    - Zak 6y ago
      I do use magisk. It started failing safetynet a few days ago, which I discovered as I was trying to make a payment.
  - canofbars 6y ago
    iOS devices can _run_ arbitrary code without being hacked. It just stops working 3 days after being compiled so its good enough for kids to develop on but not good enough to distribute.
- alisonkisk 6y ago
  That's special purpose for the general public, the opposite of general purpose.
the_af 6y ago
> How about making _general_ computing devices more accessible via UI/UX to the _general_ public? While I agree with the sentiment, and some of the complexity is not essential, the adage still applies: "everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler". At some point, "general computing" means there's some irreductible complexity that cannot be made simpler without the device ceasing to be general purpose.

psychoslave 6y ago

Oh yes, let’s leave power to those who know the best, they will make what is right for everybody. History heavily confirm this pattern.

athriren 6y ago
amusing how it is nearly always someone in the in-group making this decision, that everyone else does not need or deserve access to something but i do as a member of this group. tale as old as plato “discovering” the ideal form of government was a bunch of philosophers telling everyone else what to do.
- CodeGlitch 6y ago
  To be in the 'in' group you could always invest the time and learn how to use computers. We're actually a pretty welcoming bunch :)
  - alisonkisk 6y ago
    How can my kid learn if she's not allowed to have a (non-"appliance", general purpose) computer in the first place?

octorian 6y ago

> Let's leave the general computing devices for people who actually need that power, just like the early days. With that attitude, eventually the impact of economies of scale will end up denying us the ability to afford those devices or to use them how we see fit.

outworlder 6y ago
Correct. Current computers would become like Lisp Machines. Amazing, but unaffordable for most.
CodeGlitch 6y ago
We as a family were able to afford an ARM computer (BBC micro) in the 80s.
- TeMPOraL 6y ago
  That was on the rising edge of the wave of "computers are awesome and will change everyone's life". We're on the falling edge now. The problem GP refers to is this: making computers is expensive, gets cheaper with economies of scale. But economies of scale are capital-intensive, so they exist only where there's a market for it. The market for people requiring general-purpose computation is small and getting smaller, while the market for constrained computing is only ever bigger. Which means at some point the capital-wielding companies will just leave the market, and the prices of new general-purpose computers will go way, way up. On top of that, computers today gain most of their value interacting with other computers. Once the mainstream usage - like your e-mail or your bank - gets neatly packaged in sandboxed, trust-computing-enabled environments, the utility of your general-purpose platform will plummet. A dark but entirely possible scenario is that it eventually becomes illegal to use general-purpose computers to connect to such services, because "security".
  - alisonkisk 6y ago
    This doesn't really make sense. A general purpose computer isn't expensive. It's just a special purpose computer without the locks added on top.

hootbootscoot 6y ago

the ironic thing is that I program computers for a living yet I cannot achieve the basic functional level of a 5 year old with an Android device...that's not even counting the deliberate dark patterns. I see young ones automatically pinch-zooming stuff right out of the womb, however, so I suspect that it's "just me" having the issues...

srockets 6y ago

Poe's law?