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“These steps are mentioned in a portrait of Duesmann, who has been at the helm of the VW subsidiary in Ingolstadt for three quarters of a year, in the German pu
by perardi 6y ago
“These steps are mentioned in a portrait of Duesmann, who has been at the helm of the VW subsidiary in Ingolstadt for three quarters of a year, in the German publication Manager Magazin. Specifically, it says that new versions of the A4 and A6 will be launched again from 2023 and electric variants will follow a little later, but that Audi does not even want to offer the mid-range models as internal combustion engines until the end of their life. Ergo, the end will be before 2030.”
Um. That is not exactly an announcement.
That’s an attempt to read between the lines of an article in a magazine that says Audi would like to start phasing things out, maybe, if the market and regulatory conditions are right. That is a far cry from an announcement.
- tgtweak 6y agoThis is certainly wishy-washy regarding timelines and commitments.
- tobylane 6y agoVW has (properly) announced that their end date is 2026. I feel like this is an accurate reading between the lines and it will be announced.
- perardi 6y agoSort of? https://www.thedrive.com/news/25299/volkswagen-says-its-last-internal-combustion-engine-will-debut-in-2026 https://www.thedrive.com/news/25299/volkswagen-says-its-last... The gasoline engines that debut in 2026 will be the “last generation” of internal combustion engines. Given the lifespan of these models, I think they’ll overshoot a 2030 target. (I will personally eat my hat if they can actually sell a profitable electric Golf-class vehicle in 2026. The margins ain’t there yet.)
- spockz 6y agoIsn’t the id3 profitable? Maybe not by much but I can hardly imagine them selling a car at a net loss. Edit: the id3 is the electric counterpart to the golf.
- perardi 6y agoThey claim it will be profitable. And it may be right now… …given they are only selling the most expensive model, at $42,000. (Before tax credits.) That’s a fair bit more expensive than a gas Golf. https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a33540804/2021-vw-id3-ev-drive/ https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a33540804/2021-vw-id3-e...
- leetcrew 6y agoyikes, you'd have to be really committed to buying an EV to choose that over a golf R at that price. I guess the tax credit softens things a bit.
- perardi 6y agoAnd I’m sure the CO2 taxes and fuel taxes in Europe weight the equation as well. But yeah, quite the price difference at the sticker.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- spockz 6y agoSee my other comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25876431 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25876431, at least in the Netherlands the price difference for the same trim is negligible. Moreover, you might still be eligible for the €4K subsidy from the government.
- spockz 6y agoIn the Netherlands the base Golf starts at €27k. When you customise that to the trim you get stock on the id3 st/plus (st little less, plus more advanced extras) you get to €42382 (config code 8N1B7B) which is not that different from the €43k for the ST and €44k for the Plus. I can imagine that the Golf being known tech will have a larger profit margin indeed. In the other hand, most of the extras in the id3 are shared technology anyways.
- kjksf 6y ago
- walshemj 6y agoSome pre ww2 generations of ICE's lasted for decades after ww2 the British O series was one mentioned when I did mech eng at collage in the 1980's
- dangus 6y agoI agree with you on your take. The “announcement” isn’t much of an announcement. However, the writing is on the wall. I don’t think the general public realizes just how quickly new car buyers will look at electric versus gasoline and be unable to financially justify buying the gasoline model. (Sure, the used and possibly the “cheapest new car MSRP possible” market will involve gas cars for a long time, but not the “I need a crossover SUV for $35-45k” market that dominates sales and profits.) By 2030 you’re going to be looking at luxury car electric models with 600 miles of range at current prices or lower, with better reliability and lower cost of ownership.
- walshemj 6y agoDepends if the large subsidies for well off middle class buyers are kept.
- dangus 6y agoI don’t think it depends on the subsidies, personally. Tesla doesn’t have them on a federal level anymore and they’re able to compete against the larger market. Also, the national security implications for keeping gasoline autos as a primary mode of transport are extremely concerning for many countries. China, for example, will never allow gasoline cars to be part of their long-term future. The discussions some countries have regarding completely banning personal automobiles running on gasoline are serious discussions. So, I’m not sure one can really separate subsidy or penalty/tax from the overall value proposition of owning a product, and one can’t necessarily count on those subsidies or restrictions going away.
- perardi 6y agoOh, yes, I think EVs are going to be “a thing” soon, especially when it comes to delivery vehicles. (More opportunities for centralized charging, less range anxiety as you’re just trawling down city blocks, extremely obvious environmental benefit of not spewing particulates and NOx in a city.) I’m just objecting to poorly written puff pieces on electric car blogs.
- adrianmonk 6y agoAnother piece of context regarding hybrids: > politics will no longer promote the technology after the federal elections in autumn 2021 at the latest, and that customers will then lose interest As this is a German company, the interview was with a German magazine, and Germany is having federal elections in fall 2021, he is probably referring to regulatory changes which may affect only the German market. Audi could still sell hybrids elsewhere in the world.
- perardi 6y agoI dunno about Germany, but in the US, I think it’s fair to say customers don’t care about hybrids. They're less than 3% of the market. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_electric_vehicles_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_electric_vehicles_in_th... I suspect straight-up EVs are more palatable to average consumers because it’s just conceptually simple. You plug it in. Like a phone. Whereas a hybrid…well, is it a hybrid, is it a plug-in electric hybrid, wait, I have to plug it in and also fuel it, when does it…can I drive around on just battery…I personally love the Honda Clarity Hybrid†, but trying to explain it conceptually to my partner was a chore. Also, pure EVs are supposed to be simpler to build and design. They obviously have a huge cost in terms of that battery, but the actual powertrain is way simpler than a gas-electric hybrid system. †the in-laws live out in the boonies in Ontario, and the lack of charging infrastructure combined with the winter temperatures make plug-in hybrids so attractive for our particular use case—putter around the city on electrons, only use hydrocarbons to see mom
- Shivetya 6y agoWell up until the last few years there were hardly and hybrids but now there are quite a few including a good number of PHEVs. Consistently absent was anything on the higher end but now BMW, Lexus, and others, have a good selection that should fit under the hybrid banner. Hell Chrysler has the only PHEV minivan and that is a big segment
- perardi 6y agoWell up until the last few years there were hardly Then why was the peak year for sales in 2013? https://afdc.energy.gov/data/10301 https://afdc.energy.gov/data/10301 Consistently absent was anything on the higher end but now BMW, Lexus, and others, have a good selection that should fit under the hybrid banner The Lexus RX debuted as a hybrid in 2005. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexus_RX https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexus_RX