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Telegram’s group chats are unencrypted. Telegram’s direct messages are not E2E by defaulted, and when secure messaging is enabled, many features stop working (

Telegram’s group chats are unencrypted. Telegram’s direct messages are not E2E by defaulted, and when secure messaging is enabled, many features stop working (like desktop support). Telegram has plans to monetize metadata just like WhatsApp. Use Signal.

emptysongglass 6y ago
This does not need to be a war between Signal people and Telegram people. It's not an either/or scenario. For those people who desire E2EE by default, well let them use Signal in peace. For those people who desire the greater flexibility of infinite independent chat clients and a higher uptime, let them use Telegram in peace. The Signal community took a wrong turn into if it's not E2EE we hate it. There are people who should be using E2EE but it's not everyone and to insist on this narrative is going to drive a lot more people away from Signal than it is going to recruit.
- joejohnson 6y ago
  The motivation for a lot of this discussion lately is people leaving WhatsApp for something that is more privacy respecting; for the reasons I said above (especially the monetization point), Telegram is maybe no better than sticking with WhatsApp or FB Messenger.
  - emptysongglass 6y ago
    Telegram does not have and will not have a monetization model that sells user privacy. Durov has been explicit in this. [1] And it should be made clear that Telegram was forced into this position by the SEC who torpedoed any chance Telegram had of building out a decentralized network (TON). [1] https://t.me/durov/142 https://t.me/durov/142
    - im3w1l 6y ago
      We heard a lot of promises about Whatsapp too, about how it wouldn't share data with Facebook. Promises are worth nothing.
      - emptysongglass 6y ago
        Which is why you should look at what Telegram has actually done and that has been to protect and preserve the privacy of its users since the beginning.
      - decrypt 6y ago
        It's commonly misquoted that WhatsApp data will be shared with Facebook, but the Signal protocol for WhatsApp personal chats remains as is. It's the WhatsApp user-business communication that will be visible on third-party interfaces, like Facebook. It's in this process the e2ee aspect of the chat is lost. [1] Overall, WhatsApp still remains a safe platform for 1:1 communications and group chats, but there are still many other factors that could be sold by Facebook, including location data, contact info, online status, and other aspects of the platform. Durov did announce plans to offer more features for premium customers. [2] Hopefully that will help offset their hosting/development costs, without them succumbing to data selling practices. [1] https://gizmodo.com/this-was-whatsapps-plan-all-along-1846060382 https://gizmodo.com/this-was-whatsapps-plan-all-along-184606... [2] https://t.me/durov/142 https://t.me/durov/142
        NeutronStar 6y ago
        I remember a certain recent debacle with Occulus and Facebook, I simply cannot trust Facebook anymore.
  - ymolodtsov 6y ago
    Telegram is a better app.
- soco 6y ago
  Those people desiring greater flexibility etc have no reason to move away from Whatsapp. I mean, if Telegram has the same ups and downs including security approach as Whatsapp, then what's the upside of moving to it?
  - emptysongglass 6y ago
    It's not owned by Facebook. The client code is all open source. You can have as many independent clients open as you want. First class desktop apps.
jorvi 6y ago
> Telegram’s group chats are unencrypted. Telegram’s direct messages are not E2E by defaulted In case anyone is confused by this phrasing, Telegram group chats are encrypted, just not E2E. Telegram is not blasting plaintext messages over the internet.
MikusR 6y ago
Source on the metadata claim.
KenanSulayman 6y ago
> Telegram has plans to monetize metadata just like WhatsApp. This is a blatant lie without any evidence. Durov said they might consider advertising in channels, as is currently already done in many languages -- just not through Telegram directly.

emptysongglass 6y ago

This does not need to be a war between Signal people and Telegram people. It's not an either/or scenario. For those people who desire E2EE by default, well let them use Signal in peace. For those people who desire the greater flexibility of infinite independent chat clients and a higher uptime, let them use Telegram in peace. The Signal community took a wrong turn into if it's not E2EE we hate it. There are people who should be using E2EE but it's not everyone and to insist on this narrative is going to drive a lot more people away from Signal than it is going to recruit.

joejohnson 6y ago
The motivation for a lot of this discussion lately is people leaving WhatsApp for something that is more privacy respecting; for the reasons I said above (especially the monetization point), Telegram is maybe no better than sticking with WhatsApp or FB Messenger.
- emptysongglass 6y ago
  Telegram does not have and will not have a monetization model that sells user privacy. Durov has been explicit in this. [1] And it should be made clear that Telegram was forced into this position by the SEC who torpedoed any chance Telegram had of building out a decentralized network (TON). [1] https://t.me/durov/142 https://t.me/durov/142
  - im3w1l 6y ago
    We heard a lot of promises about Whatsapp too, about how it wouldn't share data with Facebook. Promises are worth nothing.
    - emptysongglass 6y ago
      Which is why you should look at what Telegram has actually done and that has been to protect and preserve the privacy of its users since the beginning.
    - decrypt 6y ago
      It's commonly misquoted that WhatsApp data will be shared with Facebook, but the Signal protocol for WhatsApp personal chats remains as is. It's the WhatsApp user-business communication that will be visible on third-party interfaces, like Facebook. It's in this process the e2ee aspect of the chat is lost. [1] Overall, WhatsApp still remains a safe platform for 1:1 communications and group chats, but there are still many other factors that could be sold by Facebook, including location data, contact info, online status, and other aspects of the platform. Durov did announce plans to offer more features for premium customers. [2] Hopefully that will help offset their hosting/development costs, without them succumbing to data selling practices. [1] https://gizmodo.com/this-was-whatsapps-plan-all-along-1846060382 https://gizmodo.com/this-was-whatsapps-plan-all-along-184606... [2] https://t.me/durov/142 https://t.me/durov/142
      - NeutronStar 6y ago
        I remember a certain recent debacle with Occulus and Facebook, I simply cannot trust Facebook anymore.
- ymolodtsov 6y ago
  Telegram is a better app.
soco 6y ago
Those people desiring greater flexibility etc have no reason to move away from Whatsapp. I mean, if Telegram has the same ups and downs including security approach as Whatsapp, then what's the upside of moving to it?
- emptysongglass 6y ago
  It's not owned by Facebook. The client code is all open source. You can have as many independent clients open as you want. First class desktop apps.

jorvi 6y ago

> Telegram’s group chats are unencrypted. Telegram’s direct messages are not E2E by defaulted In case anyone is confused by this phrasing, Telegram group chats are encrypted, just not E2E. Telegram is not blasting plaintext messages over the internet.

MikusR 6y ago

Source on the metadata claim.

KenanSulayman 6y ago

> Telegram has plans to monetize metadata just like WhatsApp. This is a blatant lie without any evidence. Durov said they might consider advertising in channels, as is currently already done in many languages -- just not through Telegram directly.