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> Someone needs to do a study on government waiting lists. I I'll spare you the time and money with my best guess of the conclusion of said study: In conclusi

> Someone needs to do a study on government waiting lists. I I'll spare you the time and money with my best guess of the conclusion of said study: In conclusion, Government tasks outweigh the potential output of Government employee expectations, therefore we the researchers recommend ever greater budget allotments and grants to further study why the adage 'more money' doesn't translate into more 'productive' outcomes in the Public Sector. The very essence of the State as a bureaucratic system ensures that things move as slow as possible, which often illicit the occasional Kill-dozer [0] event, even if you have someone motivated to 'change it from within' they inevitably get burned out due to the amount of red-tape and general sense of apathy. I highly recommend you watch the Wire and maybe even Treme (same producer) as it outlines anything I say way better than I could ever articulate in a 10,000 page essay on the matter. We really need to move past the nation-state model and limit its scope to as little as possible as that could at least allow for more viable solutions. I just heard you can print car tags at kiosks in grocery stores in CA, which is an example of simple and elegant solutions that were only made possible because the pandemic shut down so many government offices and thus allowed for these services to allotted to more sensible methods--they were not going to let such a massive amount of tax money slip through their hands so they moved fast before people simply disregarded it just as they did lock-down or stay at home orders, and sadly even mask wearing in certain cases. I waited nearly 5 months for my tags prior to this for my motorcycle in CA, only to see this outcome, which normally would have driven me up the wall but at least produced a reasonable over all solution. No one needs to be paid to hand out something you can automate, it makes no sense. Put those people to more sensible tasks like addressing liens or title transfers that are more nuanced and require actual Human intelligence (and I use the word loosely) or zoning approvals, or solar tie in approvals etc... to solve as there is a massive back log of those right now that can't move forward until some bureaucrat signs off on it. 0: https://allthatsinteresting.com/marvin-heemeyer-killdozer https://allthatsinteresting.com/marvin-heemeyer-killdozer

selimthegrim 6y ago
As a graduate student in New Orleans Treme doesn't even cover the half of it. Read up on the saga surrounding the new Entergy power plant and astroturfing for a taste.
- Melting_Harps 6y ago
  > As a graduate student in New Orleans Treme doesn't even cover the half of it. I don't doubt it, it's such a shame given it's rich history and deep cultural roots in music and culinary arts--perhaps the only real unique one you could call American if there is such a thing. It's hard for to me to put into words how melancholic I felt about my former POV about Louisiana especially after Katrina. Solid show for entertainment purposes, but as you said hardly thorough enough to scratch the surface of its deep issues with corruption, racism, and violence.
memonkey 6y ago
FYI there are and were government programs that operate very efficiently. Massive de-funding causes inefficiency and lack of innovation. What The Wire does great is show how money and power is actually routed. It's capitalism hiding in plain sight. Why wouldn't it be the same way in a world with less government?
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  Do we live in the same reality? Massive situations that constrains available resources cause innovation, prioritization of key goals and efficiency. Abundance of resources results in the resources being wasted on various forms of fluff. This is not unique to government, you see it in just about every type of organization. I'm not saying "defund all the things" is the right answer (mostly because I don't think it's that simple or it would have worked where tried and we'd have done it everywhere) but there's a very clear correlation between available wealth to allocate to government and bloated government. Not having government be a gravy train also seems to help select for people who genuinely want to be civil servants because the people who are just in it for the paycheck don't stick around in challenging environments like that. It seems like all the innovation in government (e.g. novel program to keep the parks clean or whatever) comes out of places like Detroits and Buffalos of the world who actually have a pressing need to figure out how to stretch their resources whereas the NYCs and the SFs of the world just increase their intake.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
    > Not having government be a gravy train also seems to help select for people who genuinely want to be civil servants because the people who are just in it for the paycheck don't stick around in challenging environments like that. So what you're saying is, we should enact regulation that forces companies to compensate C-level executives at a fraction of what they typically make now. That way, we select for the people who have a genuine interest in the success of the company instead of just a fat salary, right? We live in a country where teachers often have to purchase school supplies for their classroom out of their own pocket because of people like you.
eecc 6y ago
Its not a matter of Private Enterprise vs. Government. Government. As anyone that has worked in Big Corp or Too big to Fail Bank can attest - such a as yours truly - or any Cyberpunk novel about a world run by Megacorps at war, it’s the size that matters. Bureaucracy, empire building, mimetism of the incompetent, fear and PTSD are what ossify these orgs into useless - nay, damaging - lumps of humanity.
- wahern 6y ago
  The other aspect of it is that modern bureaucracies, especially in the United States, are strongly tailored for equitable interactions with the public, and employ rules and processes designed to minimize corruption by minimizing discretion. Unfortunately, in political discussions "bad" seems to be synonymous with "corrupt".[1] Bad government is corrupt government, and corrupt government is unsalvageable. End of debate. (Particularly unsalvageable in our strongly individualist, low trust society. Modern civil services were, of course, designed in a higher trust era that managed to more-or-less eliminate most forms of corruption through radical reformations of government.) [1] For example, recently an HN commenter drew the conclusion that California's infrastructure project cost inflation must be a result of corruption. I'm sure lots of people believe that, especially considering that in California there's a single contractor that wins most large projects in the state even though they're notorious for inflating costs during construction. But one of the principle problems, in fact, is that procedural rules--rules designed to prevent corruption--make it difficult for bureaucrats to question, based on past performance, the credibility of and preference for the lowest bid. (Of course, perhaps the relevant decision makers could try harder. But by exercising greater discretion they open themselves up to accusations of corruption if a project goes bad, or to delaying legal challenges by the loser. This reinforces the norm to simply mechanically follow procedure.)
pjc50 6y ago
> The very essence of the State as a bureaucratic system ensures that things move as slow as possible, And this is why the US lost the war to Japan. No, wait. Inefficient bureaucracy is a political choice and a policy outcome. It doesn't have to be that way, and it does require effort to make it otherwise, but it has to be politicized in a way that points towards more efficiency. GOV.UK have been fairly good at this, despite some of the other dysfunctionalities of the British state. I've never quite understood all the US complaints about "the DMV", given that I've always been able to interact with the British equivalent (DVLA) over post or website. Where the politics turns into a fight between "use government to achieve public policy goals" versus "destroy government, except for the police and security forces", the "destroy government" faction get to make the actual governance worse and have forfeited any ability to make useful or constructive criticism. (anyway, this is all off topic for the Monarch butterfly, who operate a constitutional monarchy rather than a Weberian state)
- killtimeatwork 6y ago
  > And this is why the US lost the war to Japan. No, wait. It was a battle of two bureaucracies, so of course one of them had to be a winner.
- rayiner 6y ago
  > Where the politics turns into a fight between "use government to achieve public policy goals" versus "destroy government, except for the police and security forces", the "destroy government" faction get to make the actual governance worse and have forfeited any ability to make useful or constructive criticism. You've got the causation backwards. The "destroy government" folks came into existence because governance was poor. Don't forget that in the 60 years between 1932 and 1994, Democrats controlled the House for all but 4 years, and the Senate for all but 10. Every now and then a Republican would get elected President to pump the brakes a bit, but Congress makes the laws, and since Democrats controlled that even wildly popular Presidents like Reagan couldn't meaningfully roll back any of the FDR or Great Society era programs. Its not like people didn't have ample opportunity to sample what the "use government to achieve public policy goal" folks were selling. There's not a single American city that has public services as well-run as even a second tier German city. These are one-party places like in California or New York, where Democrats control both houses of the state legislature, and the executive, and the municipal government. Here in Maryland, Democrats have controlled the state legislature continuously for a century. Since 1969, we've had just two moderate Republican governors (who got elected to pump the breaks a bit on otherwise unbroken Democratic control). Around the country, people are streaming out of New York, California, and Illinois, to places like Virginia, Georgia, Arizona, and Texas where the government doesn't try to do much but at least the taxes and property prices are low. (The #1 reason Virginia turned Democrat is migration into what used to be a well-run Republican state. Georgia and Arizona flipped for the same reason, and the same is happening to Texas.) As someone who leans center-left on "government should provide services" it's not clear to me why American government is so bad. My hunch is that Democrats aren't really interested in governing. We have a new Democratic President. What's at the top of his agenda? How about reforming Medicaid to make it easy to sign up (vast numbers of the people who are uninsured are actually eligible for Medicaid but don't sign up)? Following up on the extremely popular $600 checks to permanently expand unemployment benefits? Instead we're going to spend Biden's entire term fighting over a divisive amnesty bill.

selimthegrim 6y ago

As a graduate student in New Orleans Treme doesn't even cover the half of it. Read up on the saga surrounding the new Entergy power plant and astroturfing for a taste.

Melting_Harps 6y ago
> As a graduate student in New Orleans Treme doesn't even cover the half of it. I don't doubt it, it's such a shame given it's rich history and deep cultural roots in music and culinary arts--perhaps the only real unique one you could call American if there is such a thing. It's hard for to me to put into words how melancholic I felt about my former POV about Louisiana especially after Katrina. Solid show for entertainment purposes, but as you said hardly thorough enough to scratch the surface of its deep issues with corruption, racism, and violence.

memonkey 6y ago

FYI there are and were government programs that operate very efficiently. Massive de-funding causes inefficiency and lack of innovation. What The Wire does great is show how money and power is actually routed. It's capitalism hiding in plain sight. Why wouldn't it be the same way in a world with less government?

throwaway0a5e 6y ago
Do we live in the same reality? Massive situations that constrains available resources cause innovation, prioritization of key goals and efficiency. Abundance of resources results in the resources being wasted on various forms of fluff. This is not unique to government, you see it in just about every type of organization. I'm not saying "defund all the things" is the right answer (mostly because I don't think it's that simple or it would have worked where tried and we'd have done it everywhere) but there's a very clear correlation between available wealth to allocate to government and bloated government. Not having government be a gravy train also seems to help select for people who genuinely want to be civil servants because the people who are just in it for the paycheck don't stick around in challenging environments like that. It seems like all the innovation in government (e.g. novel program to keep the parks clean or whatever) comes out of places like Detroits and Buffalos of the world who actually have a pressing need to figure out how to stretch their resources whereas the NYCs and the SFs of the world just increase their intake.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
  > Not having government be a gravy train also seems to help select for people who genuinely want to be civil servants because the people who are just in it for the paycheck don't stick around in challenging environments like that. So what you're saying is, we should enact regulation that forces companies to compensate C-level executives at a fraction of what they typically make now. That way, we select for the people who have a genuine interest in the success of the company instead of just a fat salary, right? We live in a country where teachers often have to purchase school supplies for their classroom out of their own pocket because of people like you.

eecc 6y ago

Its not a matter of Private Enterprise vs. Government. Government. As anyone that has worked in Big Corp or Too big to Fail Bank can attest - such a as yours truly - or any Cyberpunk novel about a world run by Megacorps at war, it’s the size that matters. Bureaucracy, empire building, mimetism of the incompetent, fear and PTSD are what ossify these orgs into useless - nay, damaging - lumps of humanity.

wahern 6y ago
The other aspect of it is that modern bureaucracies, especially in the United States, are strongly tailored for equitable interactions with the public, and employ rules and processes designed to minimize corruption by minimizing discretion. Unfortunately, in political discussions "bad" seems to be synonymous with "corrupt".[1] Bad government is corrupt government, and corrupt government is unsalvageable. End of debate. (Particularly unsalvageable in our strongly individualist, low trust society. Modern civil services were, of course, designed in a higher trust era that managed to more-or-less eliminate most forms of corruption through radical reformations of government.) [1] For example, recently an HN commenter drew the conclusion that California's infrastructure project cost inflation must be a result of corruption. I'm sure lots of people believe that, especially considering that in California there's a single contractor that wins most large projects in the state even though they're notorious for inflating costs during construction. But one of the principle problems, in fact, is that procedural rules--rules designed to prevent corruption--make it difficult for bureaucrats to question, based on past performance, the credibility of and preference for the lowest bid. (Of course, perhaps the relevant decision makers could try harder. But by exercising greater discretion they open themselves up to accusations of corruption if a project goes bad, or to delaying legal challenges by the loser. This reinforces the norm to simply mechanically follow procedure.)

pjc50 6y ago

> The very essence of the State as a bureaucratic system ensures that things move as slow as possible, And this is why the US lost the war to Japan. No, wait. Inefficient bureaucracy is a political choice and a policy outcome. It doesn't have to be that way, and it does require effort to make it otherwise, but it has to be politicized in a way that points towards more efficiency. GOV.UK have been fairly good at this, despite some of the other dysfunctionalities of the British state. I've never quite understood all the US complaints about "the DMV", given that I've always been able to interact with the British equivalent (DVLA) over post or website. Where the politics turns into a fight between "use government to achieve public policy goals" versus "destroy government, except for the police and security forces", the "destroy government" faction get to make the actual governance worse and have forfeited any ability to make useful or constructive criticism. (anyway, this is all off topic for the Monarch butterfly, who operate a constitutional monarchy rather than a Weberian state)

killtimeatwork 6y ago
> And this is why the US lost the war to Japan. No, wait. It was a battle of two bureaucracies, so of course one of them had to be a winner.
rayiner 6y ago
> Where the politics turns into a fight between "use government to achieve public policy goals" versus "destroy government, except for the police and security forces", the "destroy government" faction get to make the actual governance worse and have forfeited any ability to make useful or constructive criticism. You've got the causation backwards. The "destroy government" folks came into existence because governance was poor. Don't forget that in the 60 years between 1932 and 1994, Democrats controlled the House for all but 4 years, and the Senate for all but 10. Every now and then a Republican would get elected President to pump the brakes a bit, but Congress makes the laws, and since Democrats controlled that even wildly popular Presidents like Reagan couldn't meaningfully roll back any of the FDR or Great Society era programs. Its not like people didn't have ample opportunity to sample what the "use government to achieve public policy goal" folks were selling. There's not a single American city that has public services as well-run as even a second tier German city. These are one-party places like in California or New York, where Democrats control both houses of the state legislature, and the executive, and the municipal government. Here in Maryland, Democrats have controlled the state legislature continuously for a century. Since 1969, we've had just two moderate Republican governors (who got elected to pump the breaks a bit on otherwise unbroken Democratic control). Around the country, people are streaming out of New York, California, and Illinois, to places like Virginia, Georgia, Arizona, and Texas where the government doesn't try to do much but at least the taxes and property prices are low. (The #1 reason Virginia turned Democrat is migration into what used to be a well-run Republican state. Georgia and Arizona flipped for the same reason, and the same is happening to Texas.) As someone who leans center-left on "government should provide services" it's not clear to me why American government is so bad. My hunch is that Democrats aren't really interested in governing. We have a new Democratic President. What's at the top of his agenda? How about reforming Medicaid to make it easy to sign up (vast numbers of the people who are uninsured are actually eligible for Medicaid but don't sign up)? Following up on the extremely popular $600 checks to permanently expand unemployment benefits? Instead we're going to spend Biden's entire term fighting over a divisive amnesty bill.