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> They were innovators and disrupters, not late to it. Until they focused too much on where the puck was and not enough on where the puck is going to be. Toyo

> They were innovators and disrupters, not late to it. Until they focused too much on where the puck was and not enough on where the puck is going to be. Toyota OWNED the hybrid market. They are barely part of the EV market now.

lettergram 6y ago
Tbh I never want to own a full EV. Many in the suburbs or country can’t afford to wait 20 min at a charging station. Many of us like the idea of EV, but also drive 100-200 miles a day or in cold weather or mountains, etc (all of which reduces the range of EV)
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  > Many of us like the idea of EV, but also drive 100-200 miles a day. Isn't the range of a Tesla already well over that? What holds you back if your range is only 200 miles? You can charge at home can't you?
  - lettergram 6y ago
    No you can’t that’s the “range” if it’s sunny Southern California on flat terrain. And even that might only be 160 miles. people regularly drive to cities which is like 300-400 miles round trip. They need to pull 1 ton in a truck. There’s snow on the road and no charging station, do you want to freeze? I’m not saying we won’t get there, just saying right now hybrids (which I actually own) are the only real option for people outside of a metropolitan area (or if they just want to drive local, which is fine). Pacifica hybrids are great, they have 30 mile full battery power. Then switch to gas. I drive locally 90% is the time, but can still drive to the closest major city 160 miles away
    - chrisseaton 6y ago
      > people regularly drive to cities which is like 300-400 miles round trip A second ago you only needed 100-200 miles a day? > Many of us like the idea of EV, but also drive 100-200 miles a day.
      - ogre_codes 6y ago
        Careful, they haven't even started talking about the weekly 1000 mile road trips. . Towing a boat uphill the whole way.
      - lettergram 6y ago
        I used to drive ~180 miles round trip a day for work. A Tesla wouldn’t have been able to pull that off. Particularly in cold weather in the hills. But even assuming there was a charging station at work (enabling the round trip) - I also regularly drove to other cities(weekends and such) that would be 300-400 miles away. There are no charging stations anywhere in between. This was / is common in my area. My point is that a Tesla works well in many cases, particularly in densely populated regions. They work less well if you have to drive distances, carry a heavy load, and especially not if it’s more rugged. All the more true if you have kids, particularly young ones where a 20 min charging break is rough. Or running out of charge could be a problem. Hybrids are really much better suited to these scenarios. I think EVs will get there, they’re always closing gaps, just right now less densely populated areas make less sense.
      - ryathal 6y ago
        I don't personally need a daily drive that long, but my last three Saturdays have been 250-350 miles.
    - nawgz 6y ago
      > for people outside of a metropolitan area As a Bay Area resident, let me tell you: I have driven all over California and there are Tesla’s meeting me at each spot. You’re in the past with this take.
      - lettergram 6y ago
        Try driving in Alabama, Minnesota, etc. Like I said, we will get there. It’s really not there yet. I too lived in the Bay and regularly went down to San Diego. Much easier to do if you’re willing to take a couple 20 min breaks on the way (pretty normal). There are charging stations though. It’s always warm, roads are flat, etc All I was saying is Tesla is good for what it is. It’s not well suited (today) for country or even some suburbs. For those instances hybrids are a better fit
        nawgz 6y ago
        I don’t think you realize how big California is. You could fit 3 Alabama’s in California. When I was in Alabama, I drove across Alabama to Florida and back in an evening. A Tesla could handle that no problem. 300 miles is a long range...
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- Kirby64 6y ago
  If you live in the suburbs or country, there is no need to ever wait at a charging station since you presumably should be charging at your home. This is just like charging your phone at night, just on a bigger scale.
- deelowe 6y ago
  We don't wait at charging stations. We charge at home and or at work. The vast majority of people don't drive enough in a day to run out of range on a tesla.
AmVess 6y ago
Toyota had the first mass produced hybrid vehicle in 1997 with the Prius. Today, they have hybrid vehicles for all of their passenger cars, and class leading MPG in most of them. They are #1 in terms of sales volume for hybrid vehicles. They have a fully sorted fuel cell vehicle in the Mirai, based upon technology that is no more expensive to produce than an ICE. They are late to the game on EV's, but the entire market is still in its early days. You can bet that once the battery technology becomes cheap enough to stuff into cars with Corolla price tags, Toyota will be doing it, and they will be the #1 seller of EV's in terms of sales volume.
- ogre_codes 6y ago
  > You can bet that once the battery technology becomes cheap enough to stuff into cars with Corolla price tags, Toyota will be doing it, and they will be the #1 seller of EV's in terms of sales volume. Maybe. But you are assuming the cost of battery technology will be the same for everyone. Currently it seems like Tesla is about 3-5 years ahead of everyone in terms of price & performance. What happens if/ when[1] Tesla launches an EV at Corolla prices and Toyota is still waiting for battery prices to come down? I think it's far more likely at this point that Tesla will have a $25k EV in the next 5 years than Toyota.
  - fomine3 6y ago
    In the situation (Tesla and others) looks not a big problem for other manufacturers because Tesla can't fill all EV demands and not all people (especially outside US) like Tesla.

lettergram 6y ago

Tbh I never want to own a full EV. Many in the suburbs or country can’t afford to wait 20 min at a charging station. Many of us like the idea of EV, but also drive 100-200 miles a day or in cold weather or mountains, etc (all of which reduces the range of EV)

chrisseaton 6y ago
> Many of us like the idea of EV, but also drive 100-200 miles a day. Isn't the range of a Tesla already well over that? What holds you back if your range is only 200 miles? You can charge at home can't you?
- lettergram 6y ago
  No you can’t that’s the “range” if it’s sunny Southern California on flat terrain. And even that might only be 160 miles. people regularly drive to cities which is like 300-400 miles round trip. They need to pull 1 ton in a truck. There’s snow on the road and no charging station, do you want to freeze? I’m not saying we won’t get there, just saying right now hybrids (which I actually own) are the only real option for people outside of a metropolitan area (or if they just want to drive local, which is fine). Pacifica hybrids are great, they have 30 mile full battery power. Then switch to gas. I drive locally 90% is the time, but can still drive to the closest major city 160 miles away
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    > people regularly drive to cities which is like 300-400 miles round trip A second ago you only needed 100-200 miles a day? > Many of us like the idea of EV, but also drive 100-200 miles a day.
    - ogre_codes 6y ago
      Careful, they haven't even started talking about the weekly 1000 mile road trips. . Towing a boat uphill the whole way.
    - lettergram 6y ago
      I used to drive ~180 miles round trip a day for work. A Tesla wouldn’t have been able to pull that off. Particularly in cold weather in the hills. But even assuming there was a charging station at work (enabling the round trip) - I also regularly drove to other cities(weekends and such) that would be 300-400 miles away. There are no charging stations anywhere in between. This was / is common in my area. My point is that a Tesla works well in many cases, particularly in densely populated regions. They work less well if you have to drive distances, carry a heavy load, and especially not if it’s more rugged. All the more true if you have kids, particularly young ones where a 20 min charging break is rough. Or running out of charge could be a problem. Hybrids are really much better suited to these scenarios. I think EVs will get there, they’re always closing gaps, just right now less densely populated areas make less sense.
    - ryathal 6y ago
      I don't personally need a daily drive that long, but my last three Saturdays have been 250-350 miles.
  - nawgz 6y ago
    > for people outside of a metropolitan area As a Bay Area resident, let me tell you: I have driven all over California and there are Tesla’s meeting me at each spot. You’re in the past with this take.
    - lettergram 6y ago
      Try driving in Alabama, Minnesota, etc. Like I said, we will get there. It’s really not there yet. I too lived in the Bay and regularly went down to San Diego. Much easier to do if you’re willing to take a couple 20 min breaks on the way (pretty normal). There are charging stations though. It’s always warm, roads are flat, etc All I was saying is Tesla is good for what it is. It’s not well suited (today) for country or even some suburbs. For those instances hybrids are a better fit
      - nawgz 6y ago
        I don’t think you realize how big California is. You could fit 3 Alabama’s in California. When I was in Alabama, I drove across Alabama to Florida and back in an evening. A Tesla could handle that no problem. 300 miles is a long range...
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
Kirby64 6y ago
If you live in the suburbs or country, there is no need to ever wait at a charging station since you presumably should be charging at your home. This is just like charging your phone at night, just on a bigger scale.
deelowe 6y ago
We don't wait at charging stations. We charge at home and or at work. The vast majority of people don't drive enough in a day to run out of range on a tesla.

AmVess 6y ago

Toyota had the first mass produced hybrid vehicle in 1997 with the Prius. Today, they have hybrid vehicles for all of their passenger cars, and class leading MPG in most of them. They are #1 in terms of sales volume for hybrid vehicles. They have a fully sorted fuel cell vehicle in the Mirai, based upon technology that is no more expensive to produce than an ICE. They are late to the game on EV's, but the entire market is still in its early days. You can bet that once the battery technology becomes cheap enough to stuff into cars with Corolla price tags, Toyota will be doing it, and they will be the #1 seller of EV's in terms of sales volume.

ogre_codes 6y ago
> You can bet that once the battery technology becomes cheap enough to stuff into cars with Corolla price tags, Toyota will be doing it, and they will be the #1 seller of EV's in terms of sales volume. Maybe. But you are assuming the cost of battery technology will be the same for everyone. Currently it seems like Tesla is about 3-5 years ahead of everyone in terms of price & performance. What happens if/ when[1] Tesla launches an EV at Corolla prices and Toyota is still waiting for battery prices to come down? I think it's far more likely at this point that Tesla will have a $25k EV in the next 5 years than Toyota.
- fomine3 6y ago
  In the situation (Tesla and others) looks not a big problem for other manufacturers because Tesla can't fill all EV demands and not all people (especially outside US) like Tesla.