5 ms·

Yeah, as far as I can tell, America doesn't have any meaningful left-wing politics of any kind. There's not a single left politician elected to any federal offi

Yeah, as far as I can tell, America doesn't have any meaningful left-wing politics of any kind. There's not a single left politician elected to any federal office anywhere in the nation, for example. Hollywood (the industry funded by the US Military to put pro-military-industrial-state advertisements into movies) is not "left leaning" in any meaningful way. "News Media" all lean either slight-right (MSNBC, NPR) to hard-right (Fox News, NYT, WSJ). Silicon Valley is primarily driven by right-leaning "libertarian" conservative types (at both big corps and small startups). Democrats are largely all conservative (in that, Democrats of 2021 mostly all hold identical views to what Republicans used to hold in the year 1998) We do have a few centrist politicians and groups (Bernie Sanders / AOC+Squad, etc), and a few centrist movements (rights for LGBTQ+, or "Defund the Police", for example, is largely politically-centrist initiatives). But I'm not aware of even a single left-leaning politician in any federal elected office. For example, no elected federal politician is advocating for the nationalization of all private corporations, or elimination of all for-profit entities, or for a complete cap on individual wealth, or for giving Hawaii back to the aboriginal Hawaiians, or anything like that, that could be considered a full-left position. (But meanwhile, on the right, there is a meaningful ultra-far-right political movement arguing that we should ignore replace democratically-elected officials with dicatorships, for example. And that group has elected members sitting in the House + Senate today)

gowld 6y ago
This is silly. Sanders is left. AOC is left. Many are left-leaning. No one advocates a monarchy either, but that doesn't mean no one is "right-leaning".
- mancerayder 6y ago
  AOC is a media figure with a big following, and Sanders has had a cultural influence, but I would hardly say that they're part of the DNC establishment. They're at the fringes. For evidence, Medicare For All is a keystone platform point for them both, and not for the mainstream DNC.
cat199 6y ago
> But I'm not aware of even a single left-leaning politician in any federal elected office. For example, no elected federal politician is advocating for the nationalization of all private corporations, or elimination of all for-profit entities, or for a complete cap on individual wealth, or for giving Hawaii back to the aboriginal Hawaiians, or anything like that, so, given this, that NPR is right-leaning, and bernie/AOC are 'centrist', am I correct in your assessment that basically just about only bolshevism counts as 'left'?
- filleduchaos 6y ago
  Not an American, but > NPR is right-leaning Yes. > bernie/AOC are 'centrist' Yes. Though I would describe Sanders as left-of-centre (apart from her stance on the environment, Ocasio-Cortez is quite the centrist). > am I correct in your assessment that basically just about only bolshevism counts as 'left'? No. There is an entire range of actual leftist politics and economics that Americans tend to utterly refuse to engage with in good faith - the Cold War really did a number on that country's collective sense of a political spectrum. Left/right are instead essentially reduced to only being about social issues like abortion or LGBTQ rights, with some lip service paid to the environment. "Imperialist capitalism, but make the marginal tax rate somewhat higher and appoint more minorities" is not leftism.
  - stale2002 6y ago
    > No. There is an entire range of actual leftist politics Ok got it. Lets expand this then. So bolshevism is leftist. Also Stalinism. Also, Maoism. Also probably Pol Potism. What else do we have that can go in this list? What about Huego Chavez? Nah, thats wrong, you probably would call him a centrist.
    - filleduchaos 6y ago
      See, this is the exact refusal to engage in good faith that I'm talking about. The red scare really did do a number on y'all. Geopolitically speaking, opposition to colonialism and imperialism (and their neo- variants) are generally considered to be leftist ideals. Internationalism skews left and globalism skews right, despite American conservatives' pearl-clutching in that regard. Decentralisation of power (with the extreme including advocating for anarchic/acephalous societies) also skews heavily left, with the flaw that without strong systems this often leads to the re-centralisation of power in the hands of one or a few (conversely, hierarchism which skews heavily right often leads to codification of power in de facto aristocracies). Economically, capitalism is unambiguously a right-wing economic theory (note that capitalism is not the same think as markets - another thing that people would rather remain cheerfully ignorant about). If your politico-economic system involves capitalism, you'd be very hard pressed to describe it as anything further left than centrist at best (as most mixed economies are). Actual leftist economics would include the somewhat vague blob that is left-libertarianism, encompassing everything from Georgism (often criticised as capitalism lite) to syndicalism, mutualism, anarcho-collectivism and the (of particular interest to me) various schools of African socialism. Opposition to capital/private ownership/wage theft takes many forms, not only that of the communist bogeyman. Why do people want to think of themselves/be thought of as being on the left so badly when they're completely unwilling to actually engage with what leftism means?

gowld 6y ago

This is silly. Sanders is left. AOC is left. Many are left-leaning. No one advocates a monarchy either, but that doesn't mean no one is "right-leaning".

mancerayder 6y ago
AOC is a media figure with a big following, and Sanders has had a cultural influence, but I would hardly say that they're part of the DNC establishment. They're at the fringes. For evidence, Medicare For All is a keystone platform point for them both, and not for the mainstream DNC.

cat199 6y ago

> But I'm not aware of even a single left-leaning politician in any federal elected office. For example, no elected federal politician is advocating for the nationalization of all private corporations, or elimination of all for-profit entities, or for a complete cap on individual wealth, or for giving Hawaii back to the aboriginal Hawaiians, or anything like that, so, given this, that NPR is right-leaning, and bernie/AOC are 'centrist', am I correct in your assessment that basically just about only bolshevism counts as 'left'?

filleduchaos 6y ago
Not an American, but > NPR is right-leaning Yes. > bernie/AOC are 'centrist' Yes. Though I would describe Sanders as left-of-centre (apart from her stance on the environment, Ocasio-Cortez is quite the centrist). > am I correct in your assessment that basically just about only bolshevism counts as 'left'? No. There is an entire range of actual leftist politics and economics that Americans tend to utterly refuse to engage with in good faith - the Cold War really did a number on that country's collective sense of a political spectrum. Left/right are instead essentially reduced to only being about social issues like abortion or LGBTQ rights, with some lip service paid to the environment. "Imperialist capitalism, but make the marginal tax rate somewhat higher and appoint more minorities" is not leftism.
- stale2002 6y ago
  > No. There is an entire range of actual leftist politics Ok got it. Lets expand this then. So bolshevism is leftist. Also Stalinism. Also, Maoism. Also probably Pol Potism. What else do we have that can go in this list? What about Huego Chavez? Nah, thats wrong, you probably would call him a centrist.
  - filleduchaos 6y ago
    See, this is the exact refusal to engage in good faith that I'm talking about. The red scare really did do a number on y'all. Geopolitically speaking, opposition to colonialism and imperialism (and their neo- variants) are generally considered to be leftist ideals. Internationalism skews left and globalism skews right, despite American conservatives' pearl-clutching in that regard. Decentralisation of power (with the extreme including advocating for anarchic/acephalous societies) also skews heavily left, with the flaw that without strong systems this often leads to the re-centralisation of power in the hands of one or a few (conversely, hierarchism which skews heavily right often leads to codification of power in de facto aristocracies). Economically, capitalism is unambiguously a right-wing economic theory (note that capitalism is not the same think as markets - another thing that people would rather remain cheerfully ignorant about). If your politico-economic system involves capitalism, you'd be very hard pressed to describe it as anything further left than centrist at best (as most mixed economies are). Actual leftist economics would include the somewhat vague blob that is left-libertarianism, encompassing everything from Georgism (often criticised as capitalism lite) to syndicalism, mutualism, anarcho-collectivism and the (of particular interest to me) various schools of African socialism. Opposition to capital/private ownership/wage theft takes many forms, not only that of the communist bogeyman. Why do people want to think of themselves/be thought of as being on the left so badly when they're completely unwilling to actually engage with what leftism means?