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There is something wrong in what amazon is doing. Not legally, but morally. A giant chooses to use your open source software and undercut you by bundling it wi

There is something wrong in what amazon is doing. Not legally, but morally. A giant chooses to use your open source software and undercut you by bundling it with other offerings they have. At the minimum they should collaborate with the open source devs or donate to the project.

crb002 6y ago
They breached trademark in a press release lying that they were in partnership.
- choeger 6y ago
  Maybe I watched too much of suits, but is that not illegal for publicly traded companies?
  - MauranKilom 6y ago
    And that's why there's a lawsuit. Who knows when that will be resolved though. In the meantime Amazon could keep doing what they're doing and just ignore whatever Elastic is asking of them. So Elastic drew the consequence and have stopped extending goodwill to Amazon.
    - greatpatton 6y ago
      OK but AWS already had Elastic xxx named product before Elastic search even existed. So the trademark issue can go multiple way in front of a court.
__blockcipher__ 6y ago
There is nothing wrong with what Amazon is doing ethically. They're creating value for their customers, and releasing open source software while doing so. Indeed it's Elastic who tried to get all the positives of open source with none of the negatives (as evidenced by them making Elasticsearch/Kibana no longer open source) BTW, not that it's super relevant but the narrative that Amazon is driving Elastic bankrupt is farcical. Elastic pulls in $500MM in revenue and is valued at $15B+. Elastic's doing fine. Note: One thing Amazon did do that was unethical was claim that they had "collaborated with Elastic" when they announced AWS Elasticsearch long ago. That is indefensible. But there is nothing wrong with them forking.
- floatingatoll 6y ago
  It is absolutely possible that something legal can still be ethically unacceptable. This is an instance where people believe that it is ethically unacceptable for Amazon to do what they've been doing, so strongly that they are relicensing open source software to prohibit Amazon from continuing to benefit from their work on it. Ethics are not as simple as law, especially in technology, and very especially in open source licensing.
  - parasubvert 6y ago
    This is about a for profit corporation making more money, not ethics. If there’s been any breach of ethics, it’s Elastic’s license change in the first place which was completely contrary to the spirit and intent of open source. Perhaps you don’t agree. That’s fine, but let’s not assume this is consensus and that Elasic, Inc. is all about having the highest of ideals. From my POV, They’re panicked about a business model.
  - dahdum 6y ago
    > This is an instance where people believe that it is ethically unacceptable for Amazon to do what they've been doing, so strongly that they are relicensing open source software to prohibit Amazon from continuing to benefit from their work on it. Elastic isn't the saint here, they aren't doing this to "Double Down On Open Source" as they claim. They're simply doing it so they can squeeze the hell out of the SAAS market by betraying their promises to the community and contributors.
  - __blockcipher__ 6y ago
    > It is absolutely possible that something legal can still be ethically unacceptable. I didn't say that wasn't the case. I specifically made this claim: It is not just legal for Amazon to do this, but it is also ethical. They are contributing value, not just to their paying customers but to the whole FOSS community. That's a moral good under my framework. You may have a different ethical framework; that's fine.
    - PunchTornado 6y ago

crb002 6y ago

They breached trademark in a press release lying that they were in partnership.

choeger 6y ago
Maybe I watched too much of suits, but is that not illegal for publicly traded companies?
- MauranKilom 6y ago
  And that's why there's a lawsuit. Who knows when that will be resolved though. In the meantime Amazon could keep doing what they're doing and just ignore whatever Elastic is asking of them. So Elastic drew the consequence and have stopped extending goodwill to Amazon.
  - greatpatton 6y ago
    OK but AWS already had Elastic xxx named product before Elastic search even existed. So the trademark issue can go multiple way in front of a court.

__blockcipher__ 6y ago

There is nothing wrong with what Amazon is doing ethically. They're creating value for their customers, and releasing open source software while doing so. Indeed it's Elastic who tried to get all the positives of open source with none of the negatives (as evidenced by them making Elasticsearch/Kibana no longer open source) BTW, not that it's super relevant but the narrative that Amazon is driving Elastic bankrupt is farcical. Elastic pulls in $500MM in revenue and is valued at $15B+. Elastic's doing fine. Note: One thing Amazon did do that was unethical was claim that they had "collaborated with Elastic" when they announced AWS Elasticsearch long ago. That is indefensible. But there is nothing wrong with them forking.

floatingatoll 6y ago
It is absolutely possible that something legal can still be ethically unacceptable. This is an instance where people believe that it is ethically unacceptable for Amazon to do what they've been doing, so strongly that they are relicensing open source software to prohibit Amazon from continuing to benefit from their work on it. Ethics are not as simple as law, especially in technology, and very especially in open source licensing.
- parasubvert 6y ago
  This is about a for profit corporation making more money, not ethics. If there’s been any breach of ethics, it’s Elastic’s license change in the first place which was completely contrary to the spirit and intent of open source. Perhaps you don’t agree. That’s fine, but let’s not assume this is consensus and that Elasic, Inc. is all about having the highest of ideals. From my POV, They’re panicked about a business model.
- dahdum 6y ago
  > This is an instance where people believe that it is ethically unacceptable for Amazon to do what they've been doing, so strongly that they are relicensing open source software to prohibit Amazon from continuing to benefit from their work on it. Elastic isn't the saint here, they aren't doing this to "Double Down On Open Source" as they claim. They're simply doing it so they can squeeze the hell out of the SAAS market by betraying their promises to the community and contributors.
- __blockcipher__ 6y ago
  > It is absolutely possible that something legal can still be ethically unacceptable. I didn't say that wasn't the case. I specifically made this claim: It is not just legal for Amazon to do this, but it is also ethical. They are contributing value, not just to their paying customers but to the whole FOSS community. That's a moral good under my framework. You may have a different ethical framework; that's fine.
  - PunchTornado 6y ago