4 ms·

> isolating and pushing out so called "deplorables" is escalating the current American political conflicts to serious violence. Can you provide references that

by mewse 6y ago

> isolating and pushing out so called "deplorables" is escalating the current American political conflicts to serious violence. Can you provide references that back up this claim? Bear in mind that the deplatforming began after January 6th of this year, so any escalating violence which may have occurred on or before that point is not evidence of your claim. And after the events of the 6th I imagine it’d be difficult to compose a compelling argument that not deplatforming prevents violence. In any case, the only news on the topic that I’ve seen has been that election misinformation on Facebook/Twitter has dropped by 70% since the deplatforming happened on those platforms[1]. That isn’t directly about violence, but presumably will result in less alt-right radicalisation, since their ability to reach new people is reduced. Though obviously it’s much too early to have a good understanding of the long-term impact of actions like this. Which is why I’m so curious about how you’re making statements like this as if they’re plain facts. I’m super interested to see any references you can provide! [1]: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/01/16/misinformation-trump-twitter/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/01/16/misinfo...

throwaway45349 6y ago
The deplatforming has been going on for years, since at least 2016 when Trump was elected in the first place. In Twitter's case[0] they went after smaller users (edgy "russian bots") until ~2018, when they really ramped things up. This even hit left wing (anti-establishment) activists[1]. One of the conclusions of a recent purge by Reddit was that it just pushed the banned users into even more radical spaces online[2]. Of course we all know about The Streisand effect, and one article suggests that censorship just draws more attention to the banned content[3]. If we assume that ideas are somehow "contagious" or "infectious"[4] then we're just exposing people to them even more. > In any case, the only news on the topic that I’ve seen has been that election misinformation on Facebook/Twitter has dropped by 70% since the deplatforming happened on those platforms. But the deplatforming didn't make those people go away, it pushed them to platforms like Gab and Parler, right-wing echo chambers. This is like an extreme version of a filter bubble. Remember, millions of people supported what happened at the capitol[5], and there is zero hope of de-radicalising people if the left and right aren't talking. If anything, both sides will get more extreme. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deplatforming#Twitter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deplatforming#Twitter (see references) [1]https://www.wired.co.uk/article/twitter-political-account-ban-us-mid-term-elections https://www.wired.co.uk/article/twitter-political-account-ba... [2]http://comp.social.gatech.edu/papers/cscw18-chand-hate.pdf http://comp.social.gatech.edu/papers/cscw18-chand-hate.pdf [3] https://ro.uow.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://thenextweb.com/contributors/2018/06/10/research-restricting-free-speech-isnt-the-solution-to-violence-and-hate-speech/&httpsredir=1&article=2890&context=lhapapers https://ro.uow.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://th... [4]https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-020-00546-3 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-020-00546-3 [5]https://www.statista.com/chart/23886/capitol-riot-approval/ https://www.statista.com/chart/23886/capitol-riot-approval/
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  > One of the conclusions of a recent purge by Reddit was that it just pushed the banned users into even more radical spaces online[2]. You should re-read it. It offers that as a possibility, with terms like "may" and "could have". It does not conclude it did happen; it notes that some users migrated, but that's not at all surprising. The hardcore folks are likely to always wind up somewhere, but driving them off Reddit likely makes it more difficult to recruit less initially strident users. As the study indicates, "the ban worked for Reddit".
  - evgen 6y ago
    Actually, there is a lot of weak evidence out there that de-platforming actually worked as intended. It did push some users to more radical spaces, but it also made it very difficult for weakly-interested users to be pushed into the space and become further radicalized. When 'the algorithm' can no longer suggest a slightly more radical version of the content you are currently viewing because that version has been de-platformed then it seems we start to see the norm drift back towards center rather than being pushed further to an extreme.
    - ceejayoz 6y ago
      I think you're agreeing with me?
      - evgen 6y ago
        Yes, probably should have been a bit more clear about my point. It was not just Reddit and I think the evidence is a bit stronger than you hint at. The fundamental problem facing the 'free speech uber alles' crowd is that there is a growing body of evidence that shows how de-platforming works to limit and contain the most violent and toxic online actors.
- wtfiswiththis 6y ago
  >But the deplatforming didn't make those people go away, it pushed them to platforms like Gab and Parler, right-wing echo chambers. Going to highlight that the Mercer family who bankrolls right wing projects such as Cambridge Analytica which helped bring Trump to power also funded Parler. Maybe the specific people involved in these operations should be your target of ire instead of the people involved in countering their incitement towards extremism.

by mewse 6y ago

throwaway45349 6y ago

The deplatforming has been going on for years, since at least 2016 when Trump was elected in the first place. In Twitter's case[0] they went after smaller users (edgy "russian bots") until ~2018, when they really ramped things up. This even hit left wing (anti-establishment) activists[1]. One of the conclusions of a recent purge by Reddit was that it just pushed the banned users into even more radical spaces online[2]. Of course we all know about The Streisand effect, and one article suggests that censorship just draws more attention to the banned content[3]. If we assume that ideas are somehow "contagious" or "infectious"[4] then we're just exposing people to them even more. > In any case, the only news on the topic that I’ve seen has been that election misinformation on Facebook/Twitter has dropped by 70% since the deplatforming happened on those platforms. But the deplatforming didn't make those people go away, it pushed them to platforms like Gab and Parler, right-wing echo chambers. This is like an extreme version of a filter bubble. Remember, millions of people supported what happened at the capitol[5], and there is zero hope of de-radicalising people if the left and right aren't talking. If anything, both sides will get more extreme. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deplatforming#Twitter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deplatforming#Twitter (see references) [1]https://www.wired.co.uk/article/twitter-political-account-ban-us-mid-term-elections https://www.wired.co.uk/article/twitter-political-account-ba... [2]http://comp.social.gatech.edu/papers/cscw18-chand-hate.pdf http://comp.social.gatech.edu/papers/cscw18-chand-hate.pdf [3] https://ro.uow.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://thenextweb.com/contributors/2018/06/10/research-restricting-free-speech-isnt-the-solution-to-violence-and-hate-speech/&httpsredir=1&article=2890&context=lhapapers https://ro.uow.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://th... [4]https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-020-00546-3 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-020-00546-3 [5]https://www.statista.com/chart/23886/capitol-riot-approval/ https://www.statista.com/chart/23886/capitol-riot-approval/

ceejayoz 6y ago
> One of the conclusions of a recent purge by Reddit was that it just pushed the banned users into even more radical spaces online[2]. You should re-read it. It offers that as a possibility, with terms like "may" and "could have". It does not conclude it did happen; it notes that some users migrated, but that's not at all surprising. The hardcore folks are likely to always wind up somewhere, but driving them off Reddit likely makes it more difficult to recruit less initially strident users. As the study indicates, "the ban worked for Reddit".
- evgen 6y ago
  Actually, there is a lot of weak evidence out there that de-platforming actually worked as intended. It did push some users to more radical spaces, but it also made it very difficult for weakly-interested users to be pushed into the space and become further radicalized. When 'the algorithm' can no longer suggest a slightly more radical version of the content you are currently viewing because that version has been de-platformed then it seems we start to see the norm drift back towards center rather than being pushed further to an extreme.
  - ceejayoz 6y ago
    I think you're agreeing with me?
    - evgen 6y ago
      Yes, probably should have been a bit more clear about my point. It was not just Reddit and I think the evidence is a bit stronger than you hint at. The fundamental problem facing the 'free speech uber alles' crowd is that there is a growing body of evidence that shows how de-platforming works to limit and contain the most violent and toxic online actors.
wtfiswiththis 6y ago
>But the deplatforming didn't make those people go away, it pushed them to platforms like Gab and Parler, right-wing echo chambers. Going to highlight that the Mercer family who bankrolls right wing projects such as Cambridge Analytica which helped bring Trump to power also funded Parler. Maybe the specific people involved in these operations should be your target of ire instead of the people involved in countering their incitement towards extremism.