7 ms·

Indeed, WSL2 is pretty cool. Also, Windows Terminal is actually pretty sweet, and I even gave PowerShell a spin the other day. The crazy thing is you can basica

Indeed, WSL2 is pretty cool. Also, Windows Terminal is actually pretty sweet, and I even gave PowerShell a spin the other day. The crazy thing is you can basically use it as a bash shell, and it gets the job done. My developer experience right now consists of PowerShell, where I do all my regular directory jumping, editing (vim), etc., and a Developer Shell with god awful classic "terminal" which I only use to call conan/cmake/clang-windows. I have to add the following: MSVC supports clang on windows. And CMake - all within Visual Studio. And it works perfectly, with perfect support for C++17. Badass.

jolux 6y ago
Visual Studio has supported Developer PowerShell for a while now, and it’s possible to load it into Windows Terminal. It’s just a set of arguments. This blog post explains them: https://devblogs.microsoft.com/visualstudio/say-hello-to-the-new-visual-studio-terminal/ https://devblogs.microsoft.com/visualstudio/say-hello-to-the...
atonse 6y ago
MS has always been solid with developer tools, documentation, and dev relations. Even though I prefer administering Linux servers any day over Windows servers, I find myself often missing PowerShell when I use bash. It has some quirks but some of the design decisions are exactly what you'd hope someone would make if they redesigned a command-line shell 40 years later. I still find it comical that we proudly paste around commands that just wrangle text no differently from what perl programmers did in the 90s, using sed, print, cut, etc, when things like PowerShell moved to piping objects between commands. It just removes a whole class of ambiguity.
- 908B64B197 6y ago
  > 90s The paradigm of sending text in and out of pipes is ~20 years older than that.
  - atonse 6y ago
    I had actually written an earlier date but then I realized I was talking about Perl :) I think perl was created in the early 90s, correct?
    - to11mtm 6y ago
      I believe the annals of history say 87 [0] "1987 - Larry Wall falls asleep and hits Larry Wall's forehead on the keyboard. Upon waking Larry Wall decides that the string of characters on Larry Wall's monitor isn't random but an example program in a programming language that God wants His prophet, Larry Wall, to design. Perl is born." [0] - http://james-iry.blogspot.com/2009/05/brief-incomplete-and-mostly-wrong.html http://james-iry.blogspot.com/2009/05/brief-incomplete-and-m...
      - boogies 6y ago
        +1 for linking such beautiful annals
    - 908B64B197 6y ago
      I misunderstood your post. You are 100% correct about perl. I understood it as 'shell computing with stdin and stdout streams of characters' instead of structured data coming in and going out.
- blibble 6y ago
  > MS has always been solid with developer tools, documentation, and dev relations. in my 25 years of using their tooling and reading their documentation, they've never been more than what just qualifies as borderline acceptable I booted up VS2019 today for the first time in a while (after waiting 90 minutes for it to install) and it still feels like using a Jetbrains IDE from 15 years ago, and it's still worse than what Borland produced in the 90s ... and it's even slower than IntelliJ IDEA, which just seems amazing as IDEA is written in Java
  - devmunchies 6y ago
    Agree. going through .Net ans ASP.Net documentation and none of the classes/methods have usage examples except for the super obvious ones (like the "String" class). They just show method signatures and that's it. It as if the tools were built "by IDE users", "for IDE users".
    - atonse 6y ago
      They may have stagnated but MSDN was, for many, many years, some of the best documentation I had seen anywhere. (Java was pretty solid too, and also PHP). But maybe I didn't stray too far off the beaten path?
      - coliveira 6y ago
        MSDN has a lot of documentation, but it is not easy to use.
  - jolux 6y ago
    I find Visual Studio intolerably slow, I don't quite understand why but it's been bad since at least Visual Studio 2017. Rider and IntelliJ are both much faster and I prefer them. The documentation is excellent in my experience though. I love it. Visual Studio is really the only Microsoft developer tool I don't like. Even Visual Studio Code is much better.
- knicknic 6y ago
  Why not just install powershell on Linux?
- wirrbel 6y ago
  I think they even ship powershell now for non-windows OSs.
- MagnumOpus 6y ago
  > MS has always been solid with developer tools, documentation, and dev relations The single most heavily used Microsoft dev environment is the Microsoft VBA Editor. It has not had any update in nine years and is virtually unchanged in 22 years since the release of Office 2000, incredibly outdated in terms of usability. It also cannot be replaced by using a text editor like other IDEs can. It is anything but solid.
  - pjmlp 6y ago
    Except many end up installing VB.NET and using Office COM Automation instead.
unnouinceput 6y ago
Wait until you find out CygWin is a thing for decades and you could've used Linux style under Windows all this time
- naikrovek 6y ago
  Not at all the same. Not at all.
  - girvo 6y ago
    I mean sure it’s not, but back in the late 2000s I did everything under it and it made for a great experience. It’s little package manager was handy, everything I needed was there, it worked surprisingly well.
    - 40four 6y ago
      I agree. I recently bailed on WSL because my poor crappy laptop was buckling under the weight of the extra resource demand. I’m not using Cygwin, but similarly, I decided to trick out my git bash with extra packages from MSYS2. I have all the Linux tools I need, been having a great experience with it. The amount of resources it takes to run WSL, or a virtual box on older hardware can be devastating. You don’t hear this mentioned much.
      - naikrovek 6y ago
        WSL1 doesn't use a virtual machine, and only implements Linux syscalls as NT kernel syscalls. There's no VM or OS overhead; WSL1 is 100% userland software, except for the kernel translation stuff. You should not have any issues with WSL1 in terms of system load or "weight" (whatever the hell that is supposed to mean in computer terms. This is used all the time and I've never once seen a definition for it. What is the unit of measurement? What's the border between "lightweight" and "not lightweight?" This industry as a whole ingests far too many hallucinogens. )
  - heresie-dabord 6y ago
jhoechtl 6y ago
What is windows terminal? cmd?
- bhauer 6y ago
  https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/terminal/ https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/terminal/
  - wayne 6y ago
    With its own commercial! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gw0rXPMMPE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gw0rXPMMPE
- Kwpolska 6y ago
  No. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Terminal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Terminal
- mmgutz 6y ago
  It's like the the terminals found on Linux. I would give it a recommendation but I still encounter issues with tmux session and mouse (yes I have the latest from github installed). I recommend the terminal in VSCode which works as expected with ssh + tmux.
lokedhs 6y ago
Windows Terminal is very difficult to work with if one has astigmatism that prevents working with dark background. I don't usually use Windows, so perhaps I didn't spend enough time on it, but I was unable to create a colourmap with white background that didn't look horrible with some software. No matter how much I changed the colours, there was always some combination that gave me light grey on white or something like that. If anyone has a colourmap I can use, that would be really appreciated.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- bezout 6y ago
  I guess it depends. I use the Windows Terminal, and I have high astigmatism and myopia. I find it very readable using the Cascadia Code font. Btw I agree about dark backgrounds being less readable but I can’t get away with light backgrounds because of eye floaters.
- Kipters 6y ago
  I'm astigmatic but I never noticed any issue with dark backgrounds, not only in Windows Terminal, I didn't know it could happen
  - lokedhs 6y ago
    I don't think it happens to everybody with astigmatism. I cannot read any text with black background. After a very short amount of time I'm unable to read anything, and once I take my eyes off the screen it feels as though I've been staring into the sun. There used to be a great Firefox plugin that allowed me to change the colours of web pages that use black background, but it doesn't work anymore, and I haven't found a good replacement.
    - prionassembly 6y ago
      This has to do with screen glare. A matte screen might treat you better.

jolux 6y ago

Visual Studio has supported Developer PowerShell for a while now, and it’s possible to load it into Windows Terminal. It’s just a set of arguments. This blog post explains them: https://devblogs.microsoft.com/visualstudio/say-hello-to-the-new-visual-studio-terminal/ https://devblogs.microsoft.com/visualstudio/say-hello-to-the...

atonse 6y ago

MS has always been solid with developer tools, documentation, and dev relations. Even though I prefer administering Linux servers any day over Windows servers, I find myself often missing PowerShell when I use bash. It has some quirks but some of the design decisions are exactly what you'd hope someone would make if they redesigned a command-line shell 40 years later. I still find it comical that we proudly paste around commands that just wrangle text no differently from what perl programmers did in the 90s, using sed, print, cut, etc, when things like PowerShell moved to piping objects between commands. It just removes a whole class of ambiguity.

908B64B197 6y ago
> 90s The paradigm of sending text in and out of pipes is ~20 years older than that.
- atonse 6y ago
  I had actually written an earlier date but then I realized I was talking about Perl :) I think perl was created in the early 90s, correct?
  - to11mtm 6y ago
    I believe the annals of history say 87 [0] "1987 - Larry Wall falls asleep and hits Larry Wall's forehead on the keyboard. Upon waking Larry Wall decides that the string of characters on Larry Wall's monitor isn't random but an example program in a programming language that God wants His prophet, Larry Wall, to design. Perl is born." [0] - http://james-iry.blogspot.com/2009/05/brief-incomplete-and-mostly-wrong.html http://james-iry.blogspot.com/2009/05/brief-incomplete-and-m...
    - boogies 6y ago
      +1 for linking such beautiful annals
  - 908B64B197 6y ago
    I misunderstood your post. You are 100% correct about perl. I understood it as 'shell computing with stdin and stdout streams of characters' instead of structured data coming in and going out.
blibble 6y ago
> MS has always been solid with developer tools, documentation, and dev relations. in my 25 years of using their tooling and reading their documentation, they've never been more than what just qualifies as borderline acceptable I booted up VS2019 today for the first time in a while (after waiting 90 minutes for it to install) and it still feels like using a Jetbrains IDE from 15 years ago, and it's still worse than what Borland produced in the 90s ... and it's even slower than IntelliJ IDEA, which just seems amazing as IDEA is written in Java
- devmunchies 6y ago
  Agree. going through .Net ans ASP.Net documentation and none of the classes/methods have usage examples except for the super obvious ones (like the "String" class). They just show method signatures and that's it. It as if the tools were built "by IDE users", "for IDE users".
  - atonse 6y ago
    They may have stagnated but MSDN was, for many, many years, some of the best documentation I had seen anywhere. (Java was pretty solid too, and also PHP). But maybe I didn't stray too far off the beaten path?
    - coliveira 6y ago
      MSDN has a lot of documentation, but it is not easy to use.
- jolux 6y ago
  I find Visual Studio intolerably slow, I don't quite understand why but it's been bad since at least Visual Studio 2017. Rider and IntelliJ are both much faster and I prefer them. The documentation is excellent in my experience though. I love it. Visual Studio is really the only Microsoft developer tool I don't like. Even Visual Studio Code is much better.
knicknic 6y ago
Why not just install powershell on Linux?
wirrbel 6y ago
I think they even ship powershell now for non-windows OSs.
MagnumOpus 6y ago
> MS has always been solid with developer tools, documentation, and dev relations The single most heavily used Microsoft dev environment is the Microsoft VBA Editor. It has not had any update in nine years and is virtually unchanged in 22 years since the release of Office 2000, incredibly outdated in terms of usability. It also cannot be replaced by using a text editor like other IDEs can. It is anything but solid.
- pjmlp 6y ago
  Except many end up installing VB.NET and using Office COM Automation instead.

unnouinceput 6y ago

Wait until you find out CygWin is a thing for decades and you could've used Linux style under Windows all this time

naikrovek 6y ago
Not at all the same. Not at all.
- girvo 6y ago
  I mean sure it’s not, but back in the late 2000s I did everything under it and it made for a great experience. It’s little package manager was handy, everything I needed was there, it worked surprisingly well.
  - 40four 6y ago
    I agree. I recently bailed on WSL because my poor crappy laptop was buckling under the weight of the extra resource demand. I’m not using Cygwin, but similarly, I decided to trick out my git bash with extra packages from MSYS2. I have all the Linux tools I need, been having a great experience with it. The amount of resources it takes to run WSL, or a virtual box on older hardware can be devastating. You don’t hear this mentioned much.
    - naikrovek 6y ago
      WSL1 doesn't use a virtual machine, and only implements Linux syscalls as NT kernel syscalls. There's no VM or OS overhead; WSL1 is 100% userland software, except for the kernel translation stuff. You should not have any issues with WSL1 in terms of system load or "weight" (whatever the hell that is supposed to mean in computer terms. This is used all the time and I've never once seen a definition for it. What is the unit of measurement? What's the border between "lightweight" and "not lightweight?" This industry as a whole ingests far too many hallucinogens. )
- heresie-dabord 6y ago

jhoechtl 6y ago

What is windows terminal? cmd?

bhauer 6y ago
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/terminal/ https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/terminal/
- wayne 6y ago
  With its own commercial! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gw0rXPMMPE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gw0rXPMMPE
Kwpolska 6y ago
No. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Terminal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Terminal
mmgutz 6y ago
It's like the the terminals found on Linux. I would give it a recommendation but I still encounter issues with tmux session and mouse (yes I have the latest from github installed). I recommend the terminal in VSCode which works as expected with ssh + tmux.

lokedhs 6y ago

Windows Terminal is very difficult to work with if one has astigmatism that prevents working with dark background. I don't usually use Windows, so perhaps I didn't spend enough time on it, but I was unable to create a colourmap with white background that didn't look horrible with some software. No matter how much I changed the colours, there was always some combination that gave me light grey on white or something like that. If anyone has a colourmap I can use, that would be really appreciated.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
bezout 6y ago
I guess it depends. I use the Windows Terminal, and I have high astigmatism and myopia. I find it very readable using the Cascadia Code font. Btw I agree about dark backgrounds being less readable but I can’t get away with light backgrounds because of eye floaters.
Kipters 6y ago
I'm astigmatic but I never noticed any issue with dark backgrounds, not only in Windows Terminal, I didn't know it could happen
- lokedhs 6y ago
  I don't think it happens to everybody with astigmatism. I cannot read any text with black background. After a very short amount of time I'm unable to read anything, and once I take my eyes off the screen it feels as though I've been staring into the sun. There used to be a great Firefox plugin that allowed me to change the colours of web pages that use black background, but it doesn't work anymore, and I haven't found a good replacement.
  - prionassembly 6y ago
    This has to do with screen glare. A matte screen might treat you better.