4 ms·

> Clearly no agenda here. Twitter backing an illegitimate US backed tin pot dictator and denying the legitmately elected government a voice. As far as I can te

by ardy42 6y ago

> Clearly no agenda here. Twitter backing an illegitimate US backed tin pot dictator and denying the legitmately elected government a voice. As far as I can tell, the group you're calling the "legitimately elected government" is that of the tin pot dictator that's run Venezuela into the ground and ran a sham election to cement its power: https://apnews.com/article/venezuela-congress-socialists-control-5226bbbcdeb19b07fd8b4e2e425b2759 https://apnews.com/article/venezuela-congress-socialists-con...: > Maduro’s allies swept legislative elections last month boycotted by the opposition and denounced as a sham by the U.S., the European Union and several other foreign governments. While the vote was marred by anemically low turnout, it nonetheless seemed to relegate into irrelevancy the U.S.-backed opposition led by lawmaker Juan Guaidó. The government there bribes voters with food handouts. Think of how bad things must be if you can be bribed with food: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-55211149 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-55211149: > The government may now be in control of the National Assembly but the low turnout was hardly a "win". > Sure, there were people who cast their vote, some still clinging to the man in power, others citing their democratic right as well as many more fearful of repercussions like losing food handouts if they didn't. > But for the most part, there's an atmosphere of resignation. Most Venezuelans I've spoken to this past week saw little point in these elections and decided there were better things to be doing on Sunday. > The vast queues at petrol stations rather than the polling stations explain what you need to know about politics here - that Venezuelans just want to survive another day and for politics to just go away.

grawprog 6y ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gideon_(2020) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gideon_(2020) https://www.mintpressnews.com/juan-guidos-latest-coup-attempt-venezuela-ends-was-a-massive-flop/262870/ https://www.mintpressnews.com/juan-guidos-latest-coup-attemp... https://www.vox.com/2020/5/11/21249203/venezuela-coup-jordan-goudreau-maduro-guaido-explain https://www.vox.com/2020/5/11/21249203/venezuela-coup-jordan...
- ardy42 6y ago
  Is that a problem? I'm not so blinkered that I'd object to toppling a regime like Maduro's, and the main issue with this effort seems to be incompetence and proceeding with insufficient resources. BTW, Wikipedia considers MintPress News to be unreliable because it "publishes false or fabricated information": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Perennial_sources#MintPress_News https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Per...
  - grawprog 6y ago
    >Is that a problem? I'm not so blinkered that I'd object to toppling a regime like Maduro's, Yes america believing it has the right to interfere anywhere in the world and police other countries to put in governments sympathetic to US interests is a problem. At least to everyone outside the US anyway.
    - ardy42 6y ago
      > Yes america believing it has the right to interfere anywhere in the world and police other countries to put in governments sympathetic to US interests is a problem. At least to everyone outside the US anyway. I'm not so sure about "everyone." Also, this principle of noninterference you seem to advocate is morally bankrupt, at least when taken to the extreme you seem to take it. Some very shitty, powerful people find noninterference in their affairs to be a very useful concept, and I deny they have any right to that. That's not to say interference is always justified or always done for good reasons, but it's definitely a valid option on the table.
      - grawprog 6y ago
        Well in the case of Venezuela, America's been interfering with their country since they decided to leave the IMF. Sanctions were imposed upon them and generally, they've been punished by America since and who have made multiple attempts through economic pressure and more direct actions to institute a government that will do what america wants. >Also, this principle of noninterference you seem to advocate is morally bankrupt, Well let's look back at some recent history of interference by america. They interfered in the middle east so they could take out the Taliban they trained and armed during the 80's and secure oil.pipelines between the middle east and Russia. This was continued into Libya and Syria using another us backed terrorist group, Isis. Let's go back a little further to the gulf war where a complete and total fabrication led america to interfere in the middle east. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony Maybe we can go back to Jamaica in the early 70's and discuss how america armed the political party opposed to Jamaican independence and flooded the country with guns turning it into what essentially became a warzone throughout the 70's and 80's. Maybe Columbia where the cia backed a government that supported their clandestine cocaine operations responsible for the crack epidemic in poor urban america? When has America's interference in other countries benefitted anyone other than american corporations and american interests? If america really cared about about dealing with morally bankrupt countries and governments, why do they ally themselves with Saudi Arabia and other countries well known for human rights abuses? Why do they arm and train terrorist groups?
bitwize 6y ago
Someone needs to watch Abby Martin's series on the U.S. empire's lies about Venezuela. If there are food or petrol shortages in Venezuela, it's due to American economic warfare, not Maduro.
- ardy42 6y ago
  > Someone needs to watch Abby Martin's series on the U.S. empire's lies about Venezuela. This Abby Martin? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abby_Martin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abby_Martin: > She hosted Breaking the Set on the Russian network RT America from 2012 to 2015. In 2015, Martin launched the investigative documentary and interview series The Empire Files, originally hosted by Telesur.... > In 2008, Martin was part of the 9/11 Truth movement,[9][10][11][12][13] starting her own 9/11 Truther group in San Diego.[14][15] In a 2008 video of a 9/11 truth movement demonstration, she said: "I’ve researched it for three years and every single thing that I uncover solidifies my belief that it was an inside job and that our government was complicit in what happened."[16] My understanding is Telesur is basically a Venezuelan-run RT clone. It's considered extremely unreliable by Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Perennial_sources#Telesur https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Per...: > Telesur was deprecated in the 2019 RfC, which showed consensus that the TV channel is a Bolivarian propaganda outlet. Many editors state that Telesur publishes false information.

by ardy42 6y ago

grawprog 6y ago

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gideon_(2020) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gideon_(2020) https://www.mintpressnews.com/juan-guidos-latest-coup-attempt-venezuela-ends-was-a-massive-flop/262870/ https://www.mintpressnews.com/juan-guidos-latest-coup-attemp... https://www.vox.com/2020/5/11/21249203/venezuela-coup-jordan-goudreau-maduro-guaido-explain https://www.vox.com/2020/5/11/21249203/venezuela-coup-jordan...

ardy42 6y ago
Is that a problem? I'm not so blinkered that I'd object to toppling a regime like Maduro's, and the main issue with this effort seems to be incompetence and proceeding with insufficient resources. BTW, Wikipedia considers MintPress News to be unreliable because it "publishes false or fabricated information": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Perennial_sources#MintPress_News https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Per...
- grawprog 6y ago
  >Is that a problem? I'm not so blinkered that I'd object to toppling a regime like Maduro's, Yes america believing it has the right to interfere anywhere in the world and police other countries to put in governments sympathetic to US interests is a problem. At least to everyone outside the US anyway.
  - ardy42 6y ago
    > Yes america believing it has the right to interfere anywhere in the world and police other countries to put in governments sympathetic to US interests is a problem. At least to everyone outside the US anyway. I'm not so sure about "everyone." Also, this principle of noninterference you seem to advocate is morally bankrupt, at least when taken to the extreme you seem to take it. Some very shitty, powerful people find noninterference in their affairs to be a very useful concept, and I deny they have any right to that. That's not to say interference is always justified or always done for good reasons, but it's definitely a valid option on the table.
    - grawprog 6y ago
      Well in the case of Venezuela, America's been interfering with their country since they decided to leave the IMF. Sanctions were imposed upon them and generally, they've been punished by America since and who have made multiple attempts through economic pressure and more direct actions to institute a government that will do what america wants. >Also, this principle of noninterference you seem to advocate is morally bankrupt, Well let's look back at some recent history of interference by america. They interfered in the middle east so they could take out the Taliban they trained and armed during the 80's and secure oil.pipelines between the middle east and Russia. This was continued into Libya and Syria using another us backed terrorist group, Isis. Let's go back a little further to the gulf war where a complete and total fabrication led america to interfere in the middle east. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony Maybe we can go back to Jamaica in the early 70's and discuss how america armed the political party opposed to Jamaican independence and flooded the country with guns turning it into what essentially became a warzone throughout the 70's and 80's. Maybe Columbia where the cia backed a government that supported their clandestine cocaine operations responsible for the crack epidemic in poor urban america? When has America's interference in other countries benefitted anyone other than american corporations and american interests? If america really cared about about dealing with morally bankrupt countries and governments, why do they ally themselves with Saudi Arabia and other countries well known for human rights abuses? Why do they arm and train terrorist groups?

bitwize 6y ago

Someone needs to watch Abby Martin's series on the U.S. empire's lies about Venezuela. If there are food or petrol shortages in Venezuela, it's due to American economic warfare, not Maduro.

ardy42 6y ago
> Someone needs to watch Abby Martin's series on the U.S. empire's lies about Venezuela. This Abby Martin? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abby_Martin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abby_Martin: > She hosted Breaking the Set on the Russian network RT America from 2012 to 2015. In 2015, Martin launched the investigative documentary and interview series The Empire Files, originally hosted by Telesur.... > In 2008, Martin was part of the 9/11 Truth movement,[9][10][11][12][13] starting her own 9/11 Truther group in San Diego.[14][15] In a 2008 video of a 9/11 truth movement demonstration, she said: "I’ve researched it for three years and every single thing that I uncover solidifies my belief that it was an inside job and that our government was complicit in what happened."[16] My understanding is Telesur is basically a Venezuelan-run RT clone. It's considered extremely unreliable by Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Perennial_sources#Telesur https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Per...: > Telesur was deprecated in the 2019 RfC, which showed consensus that the TV channel is a Bolivarian propaganda outlet. Many editors state that Telesur publishes false information.