6 ms·

With the combination of increasing economic equality between the sexes (young women actually earn more nowadays) and women’s rising expectations from online dat

by DC1350 6y ago

With the combination of increasing economic equality between the sexes (young women actually earn more nowadays) and women’s rising expectations from online dating attention, I think it’s clear that we’re heading rapidly towards the normalization of polygamy. There’s just no incentive for women to ever “settle” anymore. I fear that this is going to end in civil unrest when so many young men are economically insecure and have no family of their own to give them ties to the local community.

FooBarBizBazz 6y ago
I don't expect "one husband, multiple wives" style polygamy, but a de-facto "stud" or "babydaddy" system might come about. At the socioeconomic high end that could involve intermediation by sperm banks; it could even be a standard part of your corporate benefits package. More commodification. Women select donors on the basis of style-setting op-ed pieces. "Autists" somewhere on the Internet figure out how to get rich by shorting futures contracts for celebrity semen. It is also worth remarking that a surprising percentage of women now have never had a sexual experience, even at a surprisingly late age. You could call it a kind of accidental capitalist monasticism, with "startup accelerator" as nunnery (all wrapped in the language of empowerment of course, same as in Xinjiang). With effective branding, commercial sperm could give them the option, as they start to get older, to produce children without having to (belatedly learn how to) form relationships. This would then also create a market for child care apps, and for nannies to work in the colorful facilities.
- tsdlts 6y ago
  Just curious but do you have a source for the claim that a surprising number of women are not having sex at a late age? The sad part of this comment is that it seems almost inevitable given how much our society has driven the commodification of human relationships. Most of my friends always "hedged" their relationships, that is, having multiple partners waiting in the wings in case their old relationship falls off, or in case something "better" comes along. In this case better is a purely emotionally detached lists of pros and cons, an exchange of what can be gained. I can see women in their early 30s downloading an app and then clicking through a form of what their ideal sperm phenotypes will be. Blue eyes, over 6 feet, college educated etc. Then it gives you a catalogue of men with professional headshots and brief product descriptions listing all their greatest traits for you to select from.
  - FooBarBizBazz 6y ago
    I'm having trouble tracking down the exact statistics, though [1] comes close. It seems to apply less to women than I remembered. The source [4] is more scholarly and tells the same story. The BBC article [2] is unfortunately just anecdotal. At [3] they cite the CDC, saying > between 12-14 percent of adults aged 20-24 have never had sex. This number drops to around five percent for adults aged 25-29, and by age 44, only around 0.3 percent of adults report never having had the type of sex that could end in somebody getting pregnant. which are much lower numbers than I remember from another survey. What I remember is that, although on the one hand there is still a bulk trend of decreasing age of sexual debut, on the other hand these average/median statistics hide a large cohort of more-educated women who have never had a sexual partner. But my impression may not be supported by national data, and may involve social selection effects. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/03/29/share-americans-not-having-sex-has-reached-record-high/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/03/29/share-ame... [2] https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-44143003 https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-44143003 [3] https://health.howstuffworks.com/relationships/love/how-many-people-die-virgins-never-have-sex.htm https://health.howstuffworks.com/relationships/love/how-many... [4] https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2767066 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle...
dustingetz 6y ago
I think you can factor the idea of loss of community without the other stuff – solely anchored on increasing hypercompetition at global scale in a winner-takes-most markets that are no longer constrained by geography. And that's bad, because this model precludes investing in community-local concerns like teaching, children and social safety nets that are hugely +EV for us all but there is no clear way to inject a centralized private investment (and siphon off enough value to attract said investment).
chaorace 6y ago
Respectfully, this logic reminds me of the leaps commonly seen in crackpot conspiracy theories. I am highly skeptical of any supposed connection between economic equality and increased civil unrest, let alone polygamy. Critical thinking time. Is there an established link between female self-esteem and polygamy? Let's suppose there is, does polygamy actually hurt communities? Where's the evidence for that? If women are more well-off, is it a zero-sum game that makes men less well-off? If it is zero-sum, are economically insecure young men any more likely to cause civil unrest than economically insecure young women?
- PicassoCTs 6y ago
  Actually, there are several studies of places in the world were polygamy is connected to social unrest. Sudan comes to mind. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygamy_in_Sudan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygamy_in_Sudan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Sudanese_Civil_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Sudanese_Civil_War Of course the "reason" is usually something else. Nobody writes 100x"InCel" on a manifesto. Religious morals, if stripped of the whole superstitious nonsense, leaves behind the "everybody gets a chance" pacifier. For all other forms of society its boils down too some feudal harem dropping a few outdated flowers and one is desperate enough to pick from the outdated left-over men-heap. This always was and has been a solid basis for civil war, for if all you got is your life,and there is no perspective for it to ever be good, why not put it as bargaining chip into the ultimate equalizing game - which civil war is. Sorry to say it, but all those nice little social games like ménage à trois are entertainment for those who never came near these problems. And i doubt that a lot of those advocating for this as solution, ever were poor enough, long enough & lonely enough, to not become "clingy and desperate", aka jealousy. While we are at it - may i also point out, that the usual - all female secretary pool at headquarters- suspiciously looks like economic opportunity harems and thus a lot of commentary by company owners will be very tone-deaf by nature.
  - chaorace 6y ago
    That's a solid point, though, I think polygamy is acting as a barometer of social inequality in your example. I am forced to admit, if men were treated like women are in Sudan, that OP's scenario of women forcing men into harems would become reality.
PicassoCTs 6y ago
It already has
frongpik 6y ago
Rising expectations doesn't increase the pool of high quality men and polygamy, unlike marriage, doesn't provide a safety net. I also bet that few women will want to follow the path of lonely competition. Men do it because they have no choice, not because they like it.
FuckButtons 6y ago
What an odd take on an article on male college admissions. And what a strange view of women that you think they need economic incentives to persist in a long term relationship.
AnimalMuppet 6y ago
If women aren't going to "settle", why would they settle for being in a polygamous relationship?

by DC1350 6y ago

FooBarBizBazz 6y ago

I don't expect "one husband, multiple wives" style polygamy, but a de-facto "stud" or "babydaddy" system might come about. At the socioeconomic high end that could involve intermediation by sperm banks; it could even be a standard part of your corporate benefits package. More commodification. Women select donors on the basis of style-setting op-ed pieces. "Autists" somewhere on the Internet figure out how to get rich by shorting futures contracts for celebrity semen. It is also worth remarking that a surprising percentage of women now have never had a sexual experience, even at a surprisingly late age. You could call it a kind of accidental capitalist monasticism, with "startup accelerator" as nunnery (all wrapped in the language of empowerment of course, same as in Xinjiang). With effective branding, commercial sperm could give them the option, as they start to get older, to produce children without having to (belatedly learn how to) form relationships. This would then also create a market for child care apps, and for nannies to work in the colorful facilities.

tsdlts 6y ago
Just curious but do you have a source for the claim that a surprising number of women are not having sex at a late age? The sad part of this comment is that it seems almost inevitable given how much our society has driven the commodification of human relationships. Most of my friends always "hedged" their relationships, that is, having multiple partners waiting in the wings in case their old relationship falls off, or in case something "better" comes along. In this case better is a purely emotionally detached lists of pros and cons, an exchange of what can be gained. I can see women in their early 30s downloading an app and then clicking through a form of what their ideal sperm phenotypes will be. Blue eyes, over 6 feet, college educated etc. Then it gives you a catalogue of men with professional headshots and brief product descriptions listing all their greatest traits for you to select from.
- FooBarBizBazz 6y ago
  I'm having trouble tracking down the exact statistics, though [1] comes close. It seems to apply less to women than I remembered. The source [4] is more scholarly and tells the same story. The BBC article [2] is unfortunately just anecdotal. At [3] they cite the CDC, saying > between 12-14 percent of adults aged 20-24 have never had sex. This number drops to around five percent for adults aged 25-29, and by age 44, only around 0.3 percent of adults report never having had the type of sex that could end in somebody getting pregnant. which are much lower numbers than I remember from another survey. What I remember is that, although on the one hand there is still a bulk trend of decreasing age of sexual debut, on the other hand these average/median statistics hide a large cohort of more-educated women who have never had a sexual partner. But my impression may not be supported by national data, and may involve social selection effects. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/03/29/share-americans-not-having-sex-has-reached-record-high/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/03/29/share-ame... [2] https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-44143003 https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-44143003 [3] https://health.howstuffworks.com/relationships/love/how-many-people-die-virgins-never-have-sex.htm https://health.howstuffworks.com/relationships/love/how-many... [4] https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2767066 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle...

dustingetz 6y ago

I think you can factor the idea of loss of community without the other stuff – solely anchored on increasing hypercompetition at global scale in a winner-takes-most markets that are no longer constrained by geography. And that's bad, because this model precludes investing in community-local concerns like teaching, children and social safety nets that are hugely +EV for us all but there is no clear way to inject a centralized private investment (and siphon off enough value to attract said investment).

chaorace 6y ago

Respectfully, this logic reminds me of the leaps commonly seen in crackpot conspiracy theories. I am highly skeptical of any supposed connection between economic equality and increased civil unrest, let alone polygamy. Critical thinking time. Is there an established link between female self-esteem and polygamy? Let's suppose there is, does polygamy actually hurt communities? Where's the evidence for that? If women are more well-off, is it a zero-sum game that makes men less well-off? If it is zero-sum, are economically insecure young men any more likely to cause civil unrest than economically insecure young women?

PicassoCTs 6y ago
Actually, there are several studies of places in the world were polygamy is connected to social unrest. Sudan comes to mind. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygamy_in_Sudan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygamy_in_Sudan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Sudanese_Civil_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Sudanese_Civil_War Of course the "reason" is usually something else. Nobody writes 100x"InCel" on a manifesto. Religious morals, if stripped of the whole superstitious nonsense, leaves behind the "everybody gets a chance" pacifier. For all other forms of society its boils down too some feudal harem dropping a few outdated flowers and one is desperate enough to pick from the outdated left-over men-heap. This always was and has been a solid basis for civil war, for if all you got is your life,and there is no perspective for it to ever be good, why not put it as bargaining chip into the ultimate equalizing game - which civil war is. Sorry to say it, but all those nice little social games like ménage à trois are entertainment for those who never came near these problems. And i doubt that a lot of those advocating for this as solution, ever were poor enough, long enough & lonely enough, to not become "clingy and desperate", aka jealousy. While we are at it - may i also point out, that the usual - all female secretary pool at headquarters- suspiciously looks like economic opportunity harems and thus a lot of commentary by company owners will be very tone-deaf by nature.
- chaorace 6y ago
  That's a solid point, though, I think polygamy is acting as a barometer of social inequality in your example. I am forced to admit, if men were treated like women are in Sudan, that OP's scenario of women forcing men into harems would become reality.

PicassoCTs 6y ago

It already has

frongpik 6y ago

Rising expectations doesn't increase the pool of high quality men and polygamy, unlike marriage, doesn't provide a safety net. I also bet that few women will want to follow the path of lonely competition. Men do it because they have no choice, not because they like it.

FuckButtons 6y ago

What an odd take on an article on male college admissions. And what a strange view of women that you think they need economic incentives to persist in a long term relationship.

AnimalMuppet 6y ago

If women aren't going to "settle", why would they settle for being in a polygamous relationship?