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Those who make change and those who make a lot of noise are both arguably necessary, usually separate groups of people. The latter unfortunately have perverse i

Those who make change and those who make a lot of noise are both arguably necessary, usually separate groups of people. The latter unfortunately have perverse incentives, mostly gaining virtue points on social media. They get their little boost of self fulfilling ideology. Boots on the ground folks need to be celebrated and usually don’t need the virtue signaling masses - they’re stern men and women driven by righteousness.

protomyth 6y ago
Nope, those who make a lot of noise take up all the oxygen and brag they did something when they did nothing and often leave a worse situation since they scare off the people who could help. Changing your Twitter picture doesn't fix the problem, and awareness is only useful if followed by action.
- watwut 6y ago
  The two groups are in much less dichotomy then you make it to be. Neither group takes away from the other and besides, people can walk and chew at the same time. They themselves complain about each other significantly less then people who dont engage with neither of those issues (But who like to use the other group to criticize the first one without engaging with history)
  - snoshy 6y ago
    But isn't broad ignorance and complacency of the injustices committed the real issue here? I feel GP is right to question what drives this, because the few that tangentially "take up the cause" are likely lacking a more useful outlet as well as driving further complacency.
    - watwut 6y ago
      I really dont see honest question of "what drives this" nor attempt to drive people toward the other cause. It is just disdain toward one of those groups and that is all.
  - afarrell 6y ago
    > Neither group takes away from the other In my experience, the symbol-focused people get pretty upset when people start trying to shift the conversation to understand the underlying causes of problems and questioning assumptions. Imagine walking into a funeral for someone who has died from the Therac-25 and you start talking about poor UI design, cultures where people don't stop to fix problems, and hardware interlocks. It would be pretty poor timing and people would get upset at you making excuses for incompetent doctors and greedy hospitals. Now imagine that the entire sphere of public discourse is that funeral. Symbol-focused people see risk assessment and systems-thinking as signs that someone is disloyal to the cause of dismantling systemic racism.

protomyth 6y ago

Nope, those who make a lot of noise take up all the oxygen and brag they did something when they did nothing and often leave a worse situation since they scare off the people who could help. Changing your Twitter picture doesn't fix the problem, and awareness is only useful if followed by action.

watwut 6y ago
The two groups are in much less dichotomy then you make it to be. Neither group takes away from the other and besides, people can walk and chew at the same time. They themselves complain about each other significantly less then people who dont engage with neither of those issues (But who like to use the other group to criticize the first one without engaging with history)
- snoshy 6y ago
  But isn't broad ignorance and complacency of the injustices committed the real issue here? I feel GP is right to question what drives this, because the few that tangentially "take up the cause" are likely lacking a more useful outlet as well as driving further complacency.
  - watwut 6y ago
    I really dont see honest question of "what drives this" nor attempt to drive people toward the other cause. It is just disdain toward one of those groups and that is all.
- afarrell 6y ago
  > Neither group takes away from the other In my experience, the symbol-focused people get pretty upset when people start trying to shift the conversation to understand the underlying causes of problems and questioning assumptions. Imagine walking into a funeral for someone who has died from the Therac-25 and you start talking about poor UI design, cultures where people don't stop to fix problems, and hardware interlocks. It would be pretty poor timing and people would get upset at you making excuses for incompetent doctors and greedy hospitals. Now imagine that the entire sphere of public discourse is that funeral. Symbol-focused people see risk assessment and systems-thinking as signs that someone is disloyal to the cause of dismantling systemic racism.