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Seriously there is one WiFi chip family that has open source firmware (ath9k_htc). It does not do ac/ax -- only b/g/n. Not particularly common in the wild. Most

Seriously there is one WiFi chip family that has open source firmware (ath9k_htc). It does not do ac/ax -- only b/g/n. Not particularly common in the wild. Most Intel, Realtek, Qualcomm, Mediatek, et cetera WiFi chipsets require non-free firmware. It makes the official installation boot media useless for consumer laptops. I guess that is not their market if they have left it like this so long.

pabs3 6y ago
There are a couple of other open WiFi firmware projects, but they are for even older hardware. https://wiki.debian.org/Firmware/Open https://wiki.debian.org/Firmware/Open There are other ways than WiFi to get networking on these devices though, for eg Ethernet or mobile tethering over USB.
3np 6y ago
Correct me if I'm wrong, but for a normal-case install on a laptop, you won't need firmware, only drivers, no? Not to say that open-source firmware is undesirable, but they won't need to be part of an OS installation necessarily. Good Intel Wireless drivers are in the Linux kernel. Mediatek it depends on the chipset, and Realtek only has a crappy free one that will have issues with newer devices. Qualcomm I don't have much experience with. Sounds like you know this already, but I think many people are confused about drivers vs firmware - I know I was way back, at least.
- Gaelan 6y ago
  At least with Broadcom, you definitely need firmware. As I understand it, the chips don't have any data storage of their own, so they need to provide the firmware to the chip on each boot.
  - 3np 6y ago
    Oh yes, I forgot about that one. I think things like this (see raspberry pi forums) are part of the confusion. BTW, this is pretty cool: https://www.pine64.org/2020/10/28/nutcracker-challenge-blob-free-wifi-ble/ https://www.pine64.org/2020/10/28/nutcracker-challenge-blob-...
- CameronNemo 6y ago
  The drivers (e.g. for Intel's iwlwifi) don't work without the firmware.

pabs3 6y ago

There are a couple of other open WiFi firmware projects, but they are for even older hardware. https://wiki.debian.org/Firmware/Open https://wiki.debian.org/Firmware/Open There are other ways than WiFi to get networking on these devices though, for eg Ethernet or mobile tethering over USB.

3np 6y ago

Correct me if I'm wrong, but for a normal-case install on a laptop, you won't need firmware, only drivers, no? Not to say that open-source firmware is undesirable, but they won't need to be part of an OS installation necessarily. Good Intel Wireless drivers are in the Linux kernel. Mediatek it depends on the chipset, and Realtek only has a crappy free one that will have issues with newer devices. Qualcomm I don't have much experience with. Sounds like you know this already, but I think many people are confused about drivers vs firmware - I know I was way back, at least.

Gaelan 6y ago
At least with Broadcom, you definitely need firmware. As I understand it, the chips don't have any data storage of their own, so they need to provide the firmware to the chip on each boot.
- 3np 6y ago
  Oh yes, I forgot about that one. I think things like this (see raspberry pi forums) are part of the confusion. BTW, this is pretty cool: https://www.pine64.org/2020/10/28/nutcracker-challenge-blob-free-wifi-ble/ https://www.pine64.org/2020/10/28/nutcracker-challenge-blob-...
CameronNemo 6y ago
The drivers (e.g. for Intel's iwlwifi) don't work without the firmware.