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I think the quietist thread in Beckett is a strong part of his aesthetic, but let's not omit (as the author does) the reality that Beckett also worked with the

I think the quietist thread in Beckett is a strong part of his aesthetic, but let's not omit (as the author does) the reality that Beckett also worked with the French resistance against the Nazis. His art explored the suffering and futility inherent in the human condition, but his actions were not those of a person who simply surrendered.

dang 6y ago
What the article calls quietism has to do with inner non-resistance. That doesn't imply outer non-resistance. The two are probably orthogonal. "Surrender" in this sense means something like fully facing reality and not demanding that it be other than it is. Easier said than done, of course. Someone who can do that probably becomes more capable of action, because they can bear the consequences of their actions. There's a story of Beckett walking with a friend in Paris when a guy approaches saying how he's just been robbed and can he have Beckett's jacket. Beckett takes off his jacket and hands it to him. They walk on. The friend says: "why did you do that? he obviously made that up". Beckett says: "I couldn't take the chance of being wrong." I'm not sure why I thought of that just now, but he was clearly an extraordinary human.
- DyslexicAtheist 6y ago
  > What the article calls quietism has to do with inner non-resistance. That doesn't imply outer non-resistance. The two are probably orthogonal. it sounds similar to Taoism's "be like water", the orthogonality is also in the concept of ying/yang it seems https://www.einzelganger.co/be-like-water/ https://www.einzelganger.co/be-like-water/
- Mijka 6y ago
  >"Surrender" in this sense means something like fully facing reality and not demanding that it be other than it is. Easier said than done, of course. Someone who can do that probably becomes more capable of action, because they can bear the consequences of their actions. It sounds reminiscent of some principles coming from stoicism. I'm not well versed in these concepts but it doesn't sound too far-fetched as IIRC parts of stoicism have been adopted by later currents of thought.
- borepop 6y ago
  >What the article calls quietism has to do with inner non-resistance. That doesn't imply outer non-resistance. In the abstract, I agree. But certainly for many people they may seem intuitively to go together -- see, for example, the comment of another user in this same thread, who asks "I wonder how does this feel in practice? what does it feel like to be without striving? to surrender? I understand this intellectually but I struggle to understand this in practical terms." All I was trying to emphasize was that the practical, real-world side of Beckett was substantially more bold and generous than one might suppose based on some of the themes in his art, which is a point your anecdote about the jacket also makes.
- tremon 6y ago
  something like fully facing reality and not demanding that it be other than it is Which is nowadays reinvented as mindfulness, if I understand correctly.
  - Disruptive_Dave 6y ago
    I don't know if it's been reinvented. "Reality as-is" has always been the basic foundation of Buddhism, which is built on meditation, which flowers mindfulness.
    - tremon 6y ago
      Serves me right for trying to incorporate sarcasm in writing. You're right, and I did not mean to imply that mindfulness itself is new, just that it recently had its own moment in the (western) hype cycle.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]

dang 6y ago

What the article calls quietism has to do with inner non-resistance. That doesn't imply outer non-resistance. The two are probably orthogonal. "Surrender" in this sense means something like fully facing reality and not demanding that it be other than it is. Easier said than done, of course. Someone who can do that probably becomes more capable of action, because they can bear the consequences of their actions. There's a story of Beckett walking with a friend in Paris when a guy approaches saying how he's just been robbed and can he have Beckett's jacket. Beckett takes off his jacket and hands it to him. They walk on. The friend says: "why did you do that? he obviously made that up". Beckett says: "I couldn't take the chance of being wrong." I'm not sure why I thought of that just now, but he was clearly an extraordinary human.

DyslexicAtheist 6y ago
> What the article calls quietism has to do with inner non-resistance. That doesn't imply outer non-resistance. The two are probably orthogonal. it sounds similar to Taoism's "be like water", the orthogonality is also in the concept of ying/yang it seems https://www.einzelganger.co/be-like-water/ https://www.einzelganger.co/be-like-water/
Mijka 6y ago
>"Surrender" in this sense means something like fully facing reality and not demanding that it be other than it is. Easier said than done, of course. Someone who can do that probably becomes more capable of action, because they can bear the consequences of their actions. It sounds reminiscent of some principles coming from stoicism. I'm not well versed in these concepts but it doesn't sound too far-fetched as IIRC parts of stoicism have been adopted by later currents of thought.
borepop 6y ago
>What the article calls quietism has to do with inner non-resistance. That doesn't imply outer non-resistance. In the abstract, I agree. But certainly for many people they may seem intuitively to go together -- see, for example, the comment of another user in this same thread, who asks "I wonder how does this feel in practice? what does it feel like to be without striving? to surrender? I understand this intellectually but I struggle to understand this in practical terms." All I was trying to emphasize was that the practical, real-world side of Beckett was substantially more bold and generous than one might suppose based on some of the themes in his art, which is a point your anecdote about the jacket also makes.
tremon 6y ago
something like fully facing reality and not demanding that it be other than it is Which is nowadays reinvented as mindfulness, if I understand correctly.
- Disruptive_Dave 6y ago
  I don't know if it's been reinvented. "Reality as-is" has always been the basic foundation of Buddhism, which is built on meditation, which flowers mindfulness.
  - tremon 6y ago
    Serves me right for trying to incorporate sarcasm in writing. You're right, and I did not mean to imply that mindfulness itself is new, just that it recently had its own moment in the (western) hype cycle.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]