4 ms·

> This is very selfish thinking. What if the whole city was rent controlled? Economy and population would stagnate. Imagine what would happen if the whole coun

> This is very selfish thinking. What if the whole city was rent controlled? Economy and population would stagnate. Imagine what would happen if the whole country was rent-controlled! You would apparently end up like Switzerland.

bhupy 6y ago
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Switzerland does not have nationwide rent control?
- davidgay 6y ago
  Switzerland has nation-wide rent-control, but has somehow escaped from the claimed consequence of "Economy and population would stagnate.", i.e., is a counter-example to the claimed necessary consequence of rent-control.
  - bhupy 6y ago
    Do you have a citation? Switzerland almost certainly does not have nation-wide rent-control.
    - davidgay 6y ago
      Not Bay-Area rent-control, but: https://www.ch.ch/en/rent-tenant-rights-obligations/ https://www.ch.ch/en/rent-tenant-rights-obligations/. In particular, rents are expected to follow interest rate changes (both up and down). You can request a rent reduction when interest rates go down, or if "you are paying significantly more than the previous tenants". And rent increases have to be justified (by improvements, interest rate changes, market changes, etc). And there's a "conciliation authority" to resolve disputes. Seems fairly controlled to me.
      - bhupy 6y ago
        Ah yeah, this is very different from rent-control as American left-NIMBY's advocate. There's some more information here: https://www.globalpropertyguide.com/Europe/Switzerland/Landlord-and-Tenant https://www.globalpropertyguide.com/Europe/Switzerland/Landl... One important distinction: The amount of the initial rent can be freely agreed upon between landlord and tenant based on market rates. And most claims with the "conciliation" authority are unsuccessful. Because rents in Switzerland closely track the mortgage rate, it's derived from the market value of the purchased property, and rent increases are rarely blocked by the Federal government. Research that establishes negative effects on housing markets caused by rent control usually analyze the Bay Area variety of rent control, not this quasi-mortgage-driven-market-based-rent-control-that's-rarely-enforced-meaningfully.
        davidgay 6y ago
        > quasi-mortgage-driven-market-based-rent-control-that's-rarely-enforced-meaningfully. Not enforced meaningfully would mean to me that "it's abused and no-one cares". As opposed to "the rules are mostly followed, so there's not much abuse to enforce against". And as there's a country-wide renter's association (ASLOCA) I don't think significant abuses would be discussed... And checking their web site, I see https://www.asloca.ch/blog/le-conseil-des-etats-freine-le-lobby-immobilier-dans-sa-sape-de-la-protection-des-locataires/ https://www.asloca.ch/blog/le-conseil-des-etats-freine-le-lo... (in French) rejoicing that the parliament just rejected some landlord-lobby requests.

bhupy 6y ago

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Switzerland does not have nationwide rent control?

davidgay 6y ago
Switzerland has nation-wide rent-control, but has somehow escaped from the claimed consequence of "Economy and population would stagnate.", i.e., is a counter-example to the claimed necessary consequence of rent-control.
- bhupy 6y ago
  Do you have a citation? Switzerland almost certainly does not have nation-wide rent-control.
  - davidgay 6y ago
    Not Bay-Area rent-control, but: https://www.ch.ch/en/rent-tenant-rights-obligations/ https://www.ch.ch/en/rent-tenant-rights-obligations/. In particular, rents are expected to follow interest rate changes (both up and down). You can request a rent reduction when interest rates go down, or if "you are paying significantly more than the previous tenants". And rent increases have to be justified (by improvements, interest rate changes, market changes, etc). And there's a "conciliation authority" to resolve disputes. Seems fairly controlled to me.
    - bhupy 6y ago
      Ah yeah, this is very different from rent-control as American left-NIMBY's advocate. There's some more information here: https://www.globalpropertyguide.com/Europe/Switzerland/Landlord-and-Tenant https://www.globalpropertyguide.com/Europe/Switzerland/Landl... One important distinction: The amount of the initial rent can be freely agreed upon between landlord and tenant based on market rates. And most claims with the "conciliation" authority are unsuccessful. Because rents in Switzerland closely track the mortgage rate, it's derived from the market value of the purchased property, and rent increases are rarely blocked by the Federal government. Research that establishes negative effects on housing markets caused by rent control usually analyze the Bay Area variety of rent control, not this quasi-mortgage-driven-market-based-rent-control-that's-rarely-enforced-meaningfully.
      - davidgay 6y ago
        > quasi-mortgage-driven-market-based-rent-control-that's-rarely-enforced-meaningfully. Not enforced meaningfully would mean to me that "it's abused and no-one cares". As opposed to "the rules are mostly followed, so there's not much abuse to enforce against". And as there's a country-wide renter's association (ASLOCA) I don't think significant abuses would be discussed... And checking their web site, I see https://www.asloca.ch/blog/le-conseil-des-etats-freine-le-lobby-immobilier-dans-sa-sape-de-la-protection-des-locataires/ https://www.asloca.ch/blog/le-conseil-des-etats-freine-le-lo... (in French) rejoicing that the parliament just rejected some landlord-lobby requests.