6 ms·

Eh. I like the phrase but I disagree with the premise you apply to it. If I were defining a few things about myself I would say "I like Anime" and "I hate EDM".

Eh. I like the phrase but I disagree with the premise you apply to it. If I were defining a few things about myself I would say "I like Anime" and "I hate EDM". I keep ratings for every anime I've ever watched, the average score is about 7.48/10. Objectively, a lot of it was crap that I would never recommend to anyone, but it's crap I enjoy. On the other hand, there are EDM songs I like that are on my playlist on Spotify. Even though I'll happily listen to them, they don't make me think "Wow, I really need to test my view that I don't like EDM". I already know I don't like it. The fact there are exceptions doesn't make it not a useful rule for me to follow when choosing music. IMO the healthier attitude, rather than seeking out things you don't like, is to leave yourself open to things you don't like, particularly in a group setting. It's very annoying lately, my group of friends wants to play video games after work, but everybody has some kind of game type they don't like that makes it hard to reach consensus. Rather than being in constant pursuit of optimized personal pleasure, it's important that I sometimes just play the games I don't like so in the future they'll play the games they don't like with me. And then maybe by chance one of us actually will end up liking it despite ourselves. There's another layer here as well as to the scale of things. "I don't like EDM" is a very differently scaled statement than "I don't like Music". When confronting your own preferences, I think it's important to compartmentalize them appropriately. I identify myself as someone that likes anime, but I will never watch another shonen sports anime again willingly.

dmcginty 6y ago
To expand on what you're saying, there's a big difference between "I don't like X" and "X is bad". I've never been much of a wine person. It's not without trying. I've had everything from cheap boxed Franzia to a several hundred dollar bordeaux (that was totally wasted on me). I took a wine class where I was given samples and explicitly told "this is what good wine tastes like". I don't dislike wine and I don't think wine is bad, but the 10% of wine that is good doesn't appeal to me that much.
- fossuser 6y ago
  The wine example is a tricky one because there's another metric aside from like/dislike or good/bad that wine falls into. Maybe class related status bullshit? I enjoy wine, but I also recognize a lot of the snobbiness about it (particularly at the high end) is a mixture of snake oil and rich people looking for a place to buy more status. I remember some interview on NPR with a wine expert. The host was asking why in all the double blind trials people aren't able to consistently rate wines or even have consistent preferences. The wine expert complained that it's the fault of doing it double blind and 'when they're present with the people' (and likely giving them obvious clues about what's supposed to be good or not) 'they can tell the difference'. There's good/bad, like/dislike, but there's also true and fraud, high status and low status. Sometimes it can be hard to tell the difference, sometimes there isn't a difference.
  - TeMPOraL 6y ago
    The middle-class version of this is craft beers. Oh god, the grief I was getting from my friends once almost everyone got infected by the "I only buy expensive craft beers, and I care for taste" showmanship. To each their own, but I really do think that a particular brand of cheap, mass-market beer that I like tastes better, and it's also cheap. I have other things that I like to pay premium for.
- smogcutter 6y ago
  Yeah, I think where the trouble starts is when people take preferences as a declaration of some kind of Kantian universal imperative. So someone else’s taste becomes a judgment on you as a person. This drives people bananas on the internet, where you don’t have to treat other people like, you know, people. In particular, I think this accounts for the frothing rage that video game reviews can generate. For my part, I’m just glad I grew out of giving a shit what kind of music other people like.
- matthewaveryusa 6y ago
  The thing about wine is, if you don’t physiologically have tons of fungiform papillae on your tongue (ie super taster) you’ll never appreciate the nuances in wine. If you’re a non-taster wine is pretty much wasted on you for sure and you should seek out enjoying food with regard to texture rather than flavor. So it very well may be that it’s not even a matter of preference, but a matter of nature.
  - SergeAx 6y ago
    This is equivalent of "if you don't have enough muscle fibers of specific type in your legs - you'll never win the Olympics". While it is probably true, it doesn't mean you can't run just for fun with friends or play football with colleagues or do a ton of other physical activities. Taste can be trained, and to surprising extent. Any person without tasting apparatus injuries may learn to evaluate wine and distinguish good $10 bottle from bad $50 one in a blind tasting.
  - karmakaze 6y ago
    I knew a super-taster. She was a foodie and a chef. Her favourite things were Oreos and vanilla ice-cream. She could tell if the milk was left out of the fridge for a minute. She could distinguish all the variance in wines but didn't specifically enjoy any of them. I think a lot of the pleasure in wine tasting is the 1-upmanship. Personally I have been recommended wines for certain meals that complemented so well it made me notice. That's good but only in context not in isolation.
    - karmakaze 6y ago
      Is wine snobbery real and present here?
  - dmcginty 6y ago
    I don't know if I'm a super taster, but I am a huge fan of other beverages, alcoholic or not. I collect Scotch, rare beers, meads, and I used to help organize a liquor tasting/sharing group. I can definitely understand wine tasting notes - I may not be able to tell a vintage by taste but I can tell different styles of reds apart. I just don't think I like wine that much, which I'd assert is a preference.
klmadfejno 6y ago
Hmm, idk, I like anime too. But I would strongly expect to dislike a randomly chosen anime title (generously, filtering down to stuff at least loosely targeted at someone my age). It's relatively easy to find curated lists of stuff that is not crap. Games are harder. I feel like at this point I look at a game and can more or less visualize the entire game loop, estimate a low percentage of content that would actually interest me, and just yawn at the prospect of playing it. But art is pretty boring if it has nothing to novel to say. Novel art is a fantastic thing to enjoy. But if you're really looking for it, it's a more difficult thing to find by the day.
- lhorie 6y ago
  > I would strongly expect to dislike a randomly chosen anime title I'd argue that the japanese anime space is extremely crowded and there's a lot of bad quality stuff and recycling. Upon seeing yet another shounen harem, I'd often joke that episode 7 would surely be a beach episode... and sure enough, it almost always was!
  - klmadfejno 6y ago
    > I'd argue that the japanese anime space is extremely crowded and there's a lot of bad quality stuff and recycling I mean isn't that the point?
retrac 6y ago
> but everybody has some kind of game type they don't like that makes it hard to reach consensus The paradox of choice. Or whatever the term is. The huge range of options available let us whittle ourselves down into a perfect little hole of preference, but I suspect that diminishing returns kick in real quick. The truth is that you'll probably have nearly as much fun if you just pick up one of six cartridges you've got (like we had to back in the old days) and have at it, than if you spent a week carefully selecting the optimal game from the tens of thousands out there. That is a deceptively attractive misuse of time, for some reason.
- Judgmentality 6y ago
  > The truth is that you'll probably have nearly as much fun if you just pick up one of six cartridges you've got (like we had to back in the old days) and have at it, than if you spent a week carefully selecting the optimal game from the tens of thousands out there. As someone who enjoys bad movies more than good movies, this is simply not true. Pick any 6 random games on Steam and see if you find 2+ of them moderately enjoyable. There really is just a lot of crap out there, and not everything is meant for everybody. Also over time gaming has become more mainstream which means more people interested solely in money, a larger audience for more niche genres, as well as half-assed hobby projects since Steam Greenlight (which is now Steam Direct) have cropped up over time. I get the gist of your argument and there's something to be said for just trying something new and enjoying it. But your argument is roughly equivalent to "buy a plane ticket anywhere in the world and enjoy your 1 week vacation!" Chances are most people would prefer Paris, France to Paris, Texas. Even if a few people would actually enjoy the different experience equally or more, most certainly wouldn't.
  - antasvara 6y ago
    I generally agree with that, with the caveat that the top 10% of anything is closer to indistinguishable. For example, there's a very clear difference between Paris, France and Paris, Texas. However, once we've narrowed the category down to "popular vacation destinations" or something like that I think the differences are narrowed.
- 6y ago
blissofbeing 6y ago
I'm curious your favorite anime?
azinman2 6y ago
I’d challenge the notion that you don’t like EDM, especially when there is some you like. When I was a kid, I was a pretty picky eater. Then one day I was in a sandwich shop, and someone ordered a type of ham sandwich that I’d never get, but clearly a lot of people do. It made me think, “wow there’s a lot of people who do like it, so maybe there’s something to it. And I should want to like it too, because if I did, then I would have more things to enjoy in life.” That principal has taken me quite far. If your default view is that you want to like things, it’s amazing how much your previous objections can crumble. Usually it’s not just about exposure (to the “right 10%”), but also your mindset.
- robocat 6y ago
  I think it is a fallacy that “if you only tried it more often, then you would like it” or the sibling fallacy “if you tried the absolute best, then you would like it”. I have personally experimented with this, with various products I don’t like. For example, I have repeatedly tested Manchego cheese, expecting to eventually grow to like it (I love a wide variety of cheeses), but somehow I still don’t like it. The same with some forms of music that others may love which I have tried to appreciate, but I just never grow fond of the genre. That said, perhaps a counter-example: I have found that at my favourite restaurants (more than one cuisine), I can pick anything on the menu, and I will like it even though it may a dish or contain an ingredient I would usually dislike... but maybe that is because a seasoning/sauce matters more to me than the base ingredient? Or I’ve found a chef with similar taste profile to me? I am now old enough to give up more quickly on things others love but I don’t. I have also learnt that some things/experiences are not worth trying even once, regardless that others recommend them.
- mdoms 6y ago
  > I’d challenge the notion that you don’t like EDM, especially when there is some you like. Stop.
nosmokewhereiam 6y ago
For those who don't like "EDM", there is still hope: Good quality techno by established musicians can be had every weekend at Techno-club.net. It's a pay-for site with a reasonable cost, similar to a ticket price you'd get at a club for a night. I almost gave up on trying to wade through some of the crap on the latest and greatest music subscription services. Sometimes you just gotta let the underground artists take care of things! The site owner and moderators are good people trying to do great things with some of the most talented DJ's. Check it out every Friday and Saturday. Note: All times are in London time, FYI.
lhorie 6y ago
I feel like you're actually agreeing with the article. From what you're saying, you've consumed enough anime and EDM to make an informed decision on whether you "like" them or not. I think this is very different, for example, from eating chinese food in the US and deciding that one doesn't like chinese cuisine (without being aware that most of the chinese food that americans experience is a very poor representation of what mainland chinese food looks like, never mind _good_ chinese food) The point about being open about video games you don't like seems to reinforce that idea: maybe the game genre itself is not to your liking, but it turns out that the social aspect is worth it. This was the case for me and LAN FPS back in the day: had I dismissed the genre, I would not have experienced the fun of LAN parties.
smogcutter 6y ago
This is a little off the point, but thinking about games I find that the “8 kinds of fun” is a really useful lens, especially for deciding whether someone else might like a particular game. Definitely more so than the spectrum of good/mediocre/bad that reviews generally sort games into. The idea is that broadly there are eight basic ways that people get enjoyment out of games: challenge, narrative, sensation, fantasy, discovery, fellowship, expression, and submission. They’re basically self-explanatory except the last, which is “turn your brain off and unwind” games candy crush or a slot machine. Everyone has preferences in these categories to different degrees, and they go a long way to predicting what we’ll enjoy. Into challenge and discovery? You’ve probably already beaten dark souls. Expression and discovery, and can do without narrative? Minecraft. If I was running a game review site, I’d break games down by which categories they hit, and how well. And for my fellow (former) EVE Online players, this explains why different portions of the player base find each other totally incomprehensible.
DiggyJohnson 6y ago
> especially in a group setting > constant pursuit of optimized personal pleasure This is really the key point for me. I’m actively working on reframing my perspective. Optimization of this sort massively damages relationships, obviously.

dmcginty 6y ago

To expand on what you're saying, there's a big difference between "I don't like X" and "X is bad". I've never been much of a wine person. It's not without trying. I've had everything from cheap boxed Franzia to a several hundred dollar bordeaux (that was totally wasted on me). I took a wine class where I was given samples and explicitly told "this is what good wine tastes like". I don't dislike wine and I don't think wine is bad, but the 10% of wine that is good doesn't appeal to me that much.

fossuser 6y ago
The wine example is a tricky one because there's another metric aside from like/dislike or good/bad that wine falls into. Maybe class related status bullshit? I enjoy wine, but I also recognize a lot of the snobbiness about it (particularly at the high end) is a mixture of snake oil and rich people looking for a place to buy more status. I remember some interview on NPR with a wine expert. The host was asking why in all the double blind trials people aren't able to consistently rate wines or even have consistent preferences. The wine expert complained that it's the fault of doing it double blind and 'when they're present with the people' (and likely giving them obvious clues about what's supposed to be good or not) 'they can tell the difference'. There's good/bad, like/dislike, but there's also true and fraud, high status and low status. Sometimes it can be hard to tell the difference, sometimes there isn't a difference.
- TeMPOraL 6y ago
  The middle-class version of this is craft beers. Oh god, the grief I was getting from my friends once almost everyone got infected by the "I only buy expensive craft beers, and I care for taste" showmanship. To each their own, but I really do think that a particular brand of cheap, mass-market beer that I like tastes better, and it's also cheap. I have other things that I like to pay premium for.
smogcutter 6y ago
Yeah, I think where the trouble starts is when people take preferences as a declaration of some kind of Kantian universal imperative. So someone else’s taste becomes a judgment on you as a person. This drives people bananas on the internet, where you don’t have to treat other people like, you know, people. In particular, I think this accounts for the frothing rage that video game reviews can generate. For my part, I’m just glad I grew out of giving a shit what kind of music other people like.
matthewaveryusa 6y ago
The thing about wine is, if you don’t physiologically have tons of fungiform papillae on your tongue (ie super taster) you’ll never appreciate the nuances in wine. If you’re a non-taster wine is pretty much wasted on you for sure and you should seek out enjoying food with regard to texture rather than flavor. So it very well may be that it’s not even a matter of preference, but a matter of nature.
- SergeAx 6y ago
  This is equivalent of "if you don't have enough muscle fibers of specific type in your legs - you'll never win the Olympics". While it is probably true, it doesn't mean you can't run just for fun with friends or play football with colleagues or do a ton of other physical activities. Taste can be trained, and to surprising extent. Any person without tasting apparatus injuries may learn to evaluate wine and distinguish good $10 bottle from bad $50 one in a blind tasting.
- karmakaze 6y ago
  I knew a super-taster. She was a foodie and a chef. Her favourite things were Oreos and vanilla ice-cream. She could tell if the milk was left out of the fridge for a minute. She could distinguish all the variance in wines but didn't specifically enjoy any of them. I think a lot of the pleasure in wine tasting is the 1-upmanship. Personally I have been recommended wines for certain meals that complemented so well it made me notice. That's good but only in context not in isolation.
  - karmakaze 6y ago
    Is wine snobbery real and present here?
- dmcginty 6y ago
  I don't know if I'm a super taster, but I am a huge fan of other beverages, alcoholic or not. I collect Scotch, rare beers, meads, and I used to help organize a liquor tasting/sharing group. I can definitely understand wine tasting notes - I may not be able to tell a vintage by taste but I can tell different styles of reds apart. I just don't think I like wine that much, which I'd assert is a preference.

klmadfejno 6y ago

Hmm, idk, I like anime too. But I would strongly expect to dislike a randomly chosen anime title (generously, filtering down to stuff at least loosely targeted at someone my age). It's relatively easy to find curated lists of stuff that is not crap. Games are harder. I feel like at this point I look at a game and can more or less visualize the entire game loop, estimate a low percentage of content that would actually interest me, and just yawn at the prospect of playing it. But art is pretty boring if it has nothing to novel to say. Novel art is a fantastic thing to enjoy. But if you're really looking for it, it's a more difficult thing to find by the day.

lhorie 6y ago
> I would strongly expect to dislike a randomly chosen anime title I'd argue that the japanese anime space is extremely crowded and there's a lot of bad quality stuff and recycling. Upon seeing yet another shounen harem, I'd often joke that episode 7 would surely be a beach episode... and sure enough, it almost always was!
- klmadfejno 6y ago
  > I'd argue that the japanese anime space is extremely crowded and there's a lot of bad quality stuff and recycling I mean isn't that the point?

retrac 6y ago

> but everybody has some kind of game type they don't like that makes it hard to reach consensus The paradox of choice. Or whatever the term is. The huge range of options available let us whittle ourselves down into a perfect little hole of preference, but I suspect that diminishing returns kick in real quick. The truth is that you'll probably have nearly as much fun if you just pick up one of six cartridges you've got (like we had to back in the old days) and have at it, than if you spent a week carefully selecting the optimal game from the tens of thousands out there. That is a deceptively attractive misuse of time, for some reason.

Judgmentality 6y ago
> The truth is that you'll probably have nearly as much fun if you just pick up one of six cartridges you've got (like we had to back in the old days) and have at it, than if you spent a week carefully selecting the optimal game from the tens of thousands out there. As someone who enjoys bad movies more than good movies, this is simply not true. Pick any 6 random games on Steam and see if you find 2+ of them moderately enjoyable. There really is just a lot of crap out there, and not everything is meant for everybody. Also over time gaming has become more mainstream which means more people interested solely in money, a larger audience for more niche genres, as well as half-assed hobby projects since Steam Greenlight (which is now Steam Direct) have cropped up over time. I get the gist of your argument and there's something to be said for just trying something new and enjoying it. But your argument is roughly equivalent to "buy a plane ticket anywhere in the world and enjoy your 1 week vacation!" Chances are most people would prefer Paris, France to Paris, Texas. Even if a few people would actually enjoy the different experience equally or more, most certainly wouldn't.
- antasvara 6y ago
  I generally agree with that, with the caveat that the top 10% of anything is closer to indistinguishable. For example, there's a very clear difference between Paris, France and Paris, Texas. However, once we've narrowed the category down to "popular vacation destinations" or something like that I think the differences are narrowed.
6y ago

blissofbeing 6y ago

I'm curious your favorite anime?

azinman2 6y ago

I’d challenge the notion that you don’t like EDM, especially when there is some you like. When I was a kid, I was a pretty picky eater. Then one day I was in a sandwich shop, and someone ordered a type of ham sandwich that I’d never get, but clearly a lot of people do. It made me think, “wow there’s a lot of people who do like it, so maybe there’s something to it. And I should want to like it too, because if I did, then I would have more things to enjoy in life.” That principal has taken me quite far. If your default view is that you want to like things, it’s amazing how much your previous objections can crumble. Usually it’s not just about exposure (to the “right 10%”), but also your mindset.

robocat 6y ago
I think it is a fallacy that “if you only tried it more often, then you would like it” or the sibling fallacy “if you tried the absolute best, then you would like it”. I have personally experimented with this, with various products I don’t like. For example, I have repeatedly tested Manchego cheese, expecting to eventually grow to like it (I love a wide variety of cheeses), but somehow I still don’t like it. The same with some forms of music that others may love which I have tried to appreciate, but I just never grow fond of the genre. That said, perhaps a counter-example: I have found that at my favourite restaurants (more than one cuisine), I can pick anything on the menu, and I will like it even though it may a dish or contain an ingredient I would usually dislike... but maybe that is because a seasoning/sauce matters more to me than the base ingredient? Or I’ve found a chef with similar taste profile to me? I am now old enough to give up more quickly on things others love but I don’t. I have also learnt that some things/experiences are not worth trying even once, regardless that others recommend them.
mdoms 6y ago
> I’d challenge the notion that you don’t like EDM, especially when there is some you like. Stop.

nosmokewhereiam 6y ago

For those who don't like "EDM", there is still hope: Good quality techno by established musicians can be had every weekend at Techno-club.net. It's a pay-for site with a reasonable cost, similar to a ticket price you'd get at a club for a night. I almost gave up on trying to wade through some of the crap on the latest and greatest music subscription services. Sometimes you just gotta let the underground artists take care of things! The site owner and moderators are good people trying to do great things with some of the most talented DJ's. Check it out every Friday and Saturday. Note: All times are in London time, FYI.

lhorie 6y ago

I feel like you're actually agreeing with the article. From what you're saying, you've consumed enough anime and EDM to make an informed decision on whether you "like" them or not. I think this is very different, for example, from eating chinese food in the US and deciding that one doesn't like chinese cuisine (without being aware that most of the chinese food that americans experience is a very poor representation of what mainland chinese food looks like, never mind _good_ chinese food) The point about being open about video games you don't like seems to reinforce that idea: maybe the game genre itself is not to your liking, but it turns out that the social aspect is worth it. This was the case for me and LAN FPS back in the day: had I dismissed the genre, I would not have experienced the fun of LAN parties.

smogcutter 6y ago

This is a little off the point, but thinking about games I find that the “8 kinds of fun” is a really useful lens, especially for deciding whether someone else might like a particular game. Definitely more so than the spectrum of good/mediocre/bad that reviews generally sort games into. The idea is that broadly there are eight basic ways that people get enjoyment out of games: challenge, narrative, sensation, fantasy, discovery, fellowship, expression, and submission. They’re basically self-explanatory except the last, which is “turn your brain off and unwind” games candy crush or a slot machine. Everyone has preferences in these categories to different degrees, and they go a long way to predicting what we’ll enjoy. Into challenge and discovery? You’ve probably already beaten dark souls. Expression and discovery, and can do without narrative? Minecraft. If I was running a game review site, I’d break games down by which categories they hit, and how well. And for my fellow (former) EVE Online players, this explains why different portions of the player base find each other totally incomprehensible.

DiggyJohnson 6y ago

> especially in a group setting > constant pursuit of optimized personal pleasure This is really the key point for me. I’m actively working on reframing my perspective. Optimization of this sort massively damages relationships, obviously.