5 ms·

Just watched an interview with someone from Appharvest, a vertical farm company. One of the most interesting advantages of these grow operations is that they ca

Just watched an interview with someone from Appharvest, a vertical farm company. One of the most interesting advantages of these grow operations is that they can develop seeds for taste and nutrients, rather than for transport or pest resistance. The billions in research that have gone into developing resistant and durable produce can be channeled into developing the best tasting and looking products. As we see a hugely growing demand for quality in food options by the middle and upper classes, the product offering the best taste will have a large leg up on the cheap mass produced produce. This demand is not limited to individual consumers, restaurants and chefs, who already seek quality ingredients by sourcing from local trusted growers, will likely put additional demand on these low/no pesticide, and taste optimized produce. I cant wait to taste the best tomatoes of my life. Im lucky enough to have traveled to places like Bali and Italy, where the local produce is unconstrained by bean counting hyper optimization. It tastes better and quality of life is better because of it.

usrusr 6y ago
Not breeding for transport could be big. But it's not entirely new at all, certain cooking herbs like basil are often entering the kitchen alive in the pot they are grown in or even cultivated right there on the window sill. A more industrial scale might replace refrigerators for certain greens with a vertical farm "life support system" where larger batches from the supplier can be plugged in, delivered once a week or once a month at a spectrum of growth stages.
- Melting_Harps 6y ago
  > Not breeding for transport could be big. But it's not entirely new at all, certain cooking herbs like basil are often entering the kitchen alive in the pot they are grown in or even cultivated right there on the window sill. What actual experience do you have with such models? This is actually incredibly rare, specifically growing on-site, especially now as COVID has ravaged the culinary Industry irreparably in the US. I've been a cook, ran kitchens (with in an emphasis in farm to table and agro-tourism), and did/do supply chain and have a focus on food-tech. I can tell you that anything closely resembling the model you described was very short lived at Michelin Star restaurants in the E. Coast, or a few with actual farms in addition to their brick an mortar operation: think French Laundry in NorCal or Blue Hill in NY. This is actually a very good model for all involved, that may not have had much viability ~10 years ago when I first got really involved, but with COVID making people aware of how weak the food supply chain is this may do well. People are dining out less and lower overall food costs are likely to make this viable, despite not being all encompassing upon deployment. I really hope last year's shortages were a wake up call, and want to see more of this take off. This entire system is in dire need of repair, now that the disruption has taken its toll. > A more industrial scale might replace refrigerators for certain greens with a vertical farm "life support system" where larger batches from the supplier can be plugged in, delivered once a week or once a month at a spectrum of growth stages. Could be, but you have to understand most of the Industry, specifically the affluent ones that would even try this in CA or NY let alone middle America that operates on the thinnest of margins, are beyond life support. These places are not coming back. What you suggest is interesting, and I had a similar idea before which could help curb some of the baked in pershibaility in the food supply but this will just translate to longer times for ROI which as I said is already stretched super thin due to high overhead and operational costs and think margins. But, its definitely worth exploring if the travel times are less than 30 mins and would have to be limited in scope: greens, herbs and other fast-growing crops. Proper fruit trees, grains etc... are out of the question. My model was simple: ship in starter plants to unused land in cities that incorporate Ag into the Education system and have them participate in wide scale farm and smaller scale green house operations (this already exists in Denver) and have them supply the restaurants. What ever they don't sell they could help feed the community. Help create secondary and tertiary business models with local entrepreneurs and philanthropists--I thought of someone like Chamath would be super interested to be honest. I actually wanted to pitch this to my former boss, Kimbal Musk, as an adjunct of an already existing model with Big Green and Squared Roots learning gardens and the container garden models respectively. I had devised a whole system with to-do things after I came back from a stint at SpaceX after having worked at his Flagship in Boulder. Unfortunately, COVID ruined that, but the plan makes sense none the less and I would gladly make efforts to volunteer even though I'm retired from both Ag and Culinary now.
  - jelliclesfarm 6y ago
    Feed Sonama does some version of that. The distribution part. But that would work in Sonoma county. Sonoma is an Ag county. It means you can have a cow or pig in your backyard garden and that’s fine.(not exaggerating) Not so much in Bay Area where we have a housing crisis and no such thing as unused lots. Or electricity. I know because I tried. Then there is liability, insurance and red tape and legal translations. It’s hideous and exhausting.
    - Melting_Harps 6y ago
      > Feed Sonama does some version of that. The distribution part. But that would work in Sonoma county. Sonoma is an Ag county. It means you can have a cow or pig in your backyard garden and that’s fine.(not exaggerating) Not so much in Bay Area where we have a housing crisis and no such thing as unused lots. Or electricity. I'm familiar with Sonoma's Ag, I helped with a conversion of an organic farm to Biodynmic in Petaluma and you're right this is not going to work in the Bay Area due to the immense population density and scarce vacant land as is, but honestly it doesn't have to; you could just onboard people into a CSA while growing with this practice in Sonoma/Napa counties and use things like Cropmobster and distribute in a major city like say Palo Alto or Mountain View or some where people from even SF can come in and get their food boxes. It's going to exhausting regardless, as we had a team of 5 dedicated people in my apprenticeship handle a 300 client CSA and we worked roughly 14-18 hour days dueing the Spring, Summer and Fall months when I was in S. Germany. The goal is to get school children involved (middle to HS aged), we tried to do that, but could only get them to come to harvest for a few hours a month and tour the farm: my friend's mother was a member of the ruling Green party in Baden Wuttenberg and we had so much red tape to deal with to ensure the children's safety, thus this needs to be done either on a volunteer basis after school or as a in-school program. But if I'm honest, now with COVID school shut downs in CA I bet parents are just dying to get their kids out of the house and it could get lots of traction. > I know because I tried. Then there is liability, insurance and red tape and legal translations. It’s hideous and exhausting. Honestly, I don't doubt it, which is why I wouldn't bother following the rules in CA and just resort to things like guerilla gardening and bypass it entirely if I wanted to take the challenge. I remember the riots that happened at UC Berkeley when people tried to use the vacant land for gardening/farming, not sure if it was OWS people but lots of them were sympathetic and got maced just the same. Occupy the Farm covers this [0]. It seems like we have much to discuss, I still need to drop you an email. I'll drop you a line before the end of the month, just got a lot going on, but it'd be cool to chat and share resources. 0: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09DjPh6OQyk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09DjPh6OQyk
pm90 6y ago
Do you mind sharing a link to this interview? I just checked out appharvest, seems like a very interesting company.
- scsilver 6y ago
  It was on cnbc during the middle of the week this week.
- jelliclesfarm 6y ago
  https://investorplace.com/2021/01/novs-stock-why-novus-capital-is-surging-ahead-of-the-appharvest-spac-merger/amp/ https://investorplace.com/2021/01/novs-stock-why-novus-capit... : I have been following AppHarvest after news of their SPAC merger with Novus Capital
taurath 6y ago
The quality of accessible food in so much of the US is astoundingly bad. Most meat cheese and vegetables sold by the largest distributors (and therefore what most people eat) are not great - I compare most lunch meat to the meat equivalent of canned green beans. Let alone the added sugar..
- baskire 6y ago
  It’s annoying even to buy meat. A lot of times it’s injected with saline. Sometimes up to 15% of the weight is water. Sure doesn’t help in the taste department.
- mschuster91 6y ago
  > Most meat ... are not great A key part of this, related to the massive opposition of the EU against importing US agricultural products, is how the US treats farm animals. Chickens have to be washed with chlorine and eggs with water, simply because the conditions in farms are so utterly inhumane and disgusting that without doing this, the products would be an actual danger for the health of the people eating it. The advantage (from a business point of view) is that the production costs are way lower than if European standards (which aren't that great either!) were followed. To refer to an old meme... choose two of "fast, cheap and high quality".
hanniabu 6y ago
It's not just the seeds. I worked in a vertical hydroponic and aquaponic startup and we were able to alter the taste with variations in nutrients, water schedules, and lighting. We would work with chefs from gourmet NYC restaurants and they would tell us the taste they'd want and we would grow to cater for that.
- jsilence 6y ago
  Is the company still operating?
  - hanniabu 6y ago
    Nope, funding ran dry

usrusr 6y ago

Not breeding for transport could be big. But it's not entirely new at all, certain cooking herbs like basil are often entering the kitchen alive in the pot they are grown in or even cultivated right there on the window sill. A more industrial scale might replace refrigerators for certain greens with a vertical farm "life support system" where larger batches from the supplier can be plugged in, delivered once a week or once a month at a spectrum of growth stages.

Melting_Harps 6y ago
> Not breeding for transport could be big. But it's not entirely new at all, certain cooking herbs like basil are often entering the kitchen alive in the pot they are grown in or even cultivated right there on the window sill. What actual experience do you have with such models? This is actually incredibly rare, specifically growing on-site, especially now as COVID has ravaged the culinary Industry irreparably in the US. I've been a cook, ran kitchens (with in an emphasis in farm to table and agro-tourism), and did/do supply chain and have a focus on food-tech. I can tell you that anything closely resembling the model you described was very short lived at Michelin Star restaurants in the E. Coast, or a few with actual farms in addition to their brick an mortar operation: think French Laundry in NorCal or Blue Hill in NY. This is actually a very good model for all involved, that may not have had much viability ~10 years ago when I first got really involved, but with COVID making people aware of how weak the food supply chain is this may do well. People are dining out less and lower overall food costs are likely to make this viable, despite not being all encompassing upon deployment. I really hope last year's shortages were a wake up call, and want to see more of this take off. This entire system is in dire need of repair, now that the disruption has taken its toll. > A more industrial scale might replace refrigerators for certain greens with a vertical farm "life support system" where larger batches from the supplier can be plugged in, delivered once a week or once a month at a spectrum of growth stages. Could be, but you have to understand most of the Industry, specifically the affluent ones that would even try this in CA or NY let alone middle America that operates on the thinnest of margins, are beyond life support. These places are not coming back. What you suggest is interesting, and I had a similar idea before which could help curb some of the baked in pershibaility in the food supply but this will just translate to longer times for ROI which as I said is already stretched super thin due to high overhead and operational costs and think margins. But, its definitely worth exploring if the travel times are less than 30 mins and would have to be limited in scope: greens, herbs and other fast-growing crops. Proper fruit trees, grains etc... are out of the question. My model was simple: ship in starter plants to unused land in cities that incorporate Ag into the Education system and have them participate in wide scale farm and smaller scale green house operations (this already exists in Denver) and have them supply the restaurants. What ever they don't sell they could help feed the community. Help create secondary and tertiary business models with local entrepreneurs and philanthropists--I thought of someone like Chamath would be super interested to be honest. I actually wanted to pitch this to my former boss, Kimbal Musk, as an adjunct of an already existing model with Big Green and Squared Roots learning gardens and the container garden models respectively. I had devised a whole system with to-do things after I came back from a stint at SpaceX after having worked at his Flagship in Boulder. Unfortunately, COVID ruined that, but the plan makes sense none the less and I would gladly make efforts to volunteer even though I'm retired from both Ag and Culinary now.
- jelliclesfarm 6y ago
  Feed Sonama does some version of that. The distribution part. But that would work in Sonoma county. Sonoma is an Ag county. It means you can have a cow or pig in your backyard garden and that’s fine.(not exaggerating) Not so much in Bay Area where we have a housing crisis and no such thing as unused lots. Or electricity. I know because I tried. Then there is liability, insurance and red tape and legal translations. It’s hideous and exhausting.
  - Melting_Harps 6y ago
    > Feed Sonama does some version of that. The distribution part. But that would work in Sonoma county. Sonoma is an Ag county. It means you can have a cow or pig in your backyard garden and that’s fine.(not exaggerating) Not so much in Bay Area where we have a housing crisis and no such thing as unused lots. Or electricity. I'm familiar with Sonoma's Ag, I helped with a conversion of an organic farm to Biodynmic in Petaluma and you're right this is not going to work in the Bay Area due to the immense population density and scarce vacant land as is, but honestly it doesn't have to; you could just onboard people into a CSA while growing with this practice in Sonoma/Napa counties and use things like Cropmobster and distribute in a major city like say Palo Alto or Mountain View or some where people from even SF can come in and get their food boxes. It's going to exhausting regardless, as we had a team of 5 dedicated people in my apprenticeship handle a 300 client CSA and we worked roughly 14-18 hour days dueing the Spring, Summer and Fall months when I was in S. Germany. The goal is to get school children involved (middle to HS aged), we tried to do that, but could only get them to come to harvest for a few hours a month and tour the farm: my friend's mother was a member of the ruling Green party in Baden Wuttenberg and we had so much red tape to deal with to ensure the children's safety, thus this needs to be done either on a volunteer basis after school or as a in-school program. But if I'm honest, now with COVID school shut downs in CA I bet parents are just dying to get their kids out of the house and it could get lots of traction. > I know because I tried. Then there is liability, insurance and red tape and legal translations. It’s hideous and exhausting. Honestly, I don't doubt it, which is why I wouldn't bother following the rules in CA and just resort to things like guerilla gardening and bypass it entirely if I wanted to take the challenge. I remember the riots that happened at UC Berkeley when people tried to use the vacant land for gardening/farming, not sure if it was OWS people but lots of them were sympathetic and got maced just the same. Occupy the Farm covers this [0]. It seems like we have much to discuss, I still need to drop you an email. I'll drop you a line before the end of the month, just got a lot going on, but it'd be cool to chat and share resources. 0: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09DjPh6OQyk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09DjPh6OQyk

pm90 6y ago

Do you mind sharing a link to this interview? I just checked out appharvest, seems like a very interesting company.

scsilver 6y ago
It was on cnbc during the middle of the week this week.
jelliclesfarm 6y ago
https://investorplace.com/2021/01/novs-stock-why-novus-capital-is-surging-ahead-of-the-appharvest-spac-merger/amp/ https://investorplace.com/2021/01/novs-stock-why-novus-capit... : I have been following AppHarvest after news of their SPAC merger with Novus Capital

taurath 6y ago

The quality of accessible food in so much of the US is astoundingly bad. Most meat cheese and vegetables sold by the largest distributors (and therefore what most people eat) are not great - I compare most lunch meat to the meat equivalent of canned green beans. Let alone the added sugar..

baskire 6y ago
It’s annoying even to buy meat. A lot of times it’s injected with saline. Sometimes up to 15% of the weight is water. Sure doesn’t help in the taste department.
mschuster91 6y ago
> Most meat ... are not great A key part of this, related to the massive opposition of the EU against importing US agricultural products, is how the US treats farm animals. Chickens have to be washed with chlorine and eggs with water, simply because the conditions in farms are so utterly inhumane and disgusting that without doing this, the products would be an actual danger for the health of the people eating it. The advantage (from a business point of view) is that the production costs are way lower than if European standards (which aren't that great either!) were followed. To refer to an old meme... choose two of "fast, cheap and high quality".

hanniabu 6y ago

It's not just the seeds. I worked in a vertical hydroponic and aquaponic startup and we were able to alter the taste with variations in nutrients, water schedules, and lighting. We would work with chefs from gourmet NYC restaurants and they would tell us the taste they'd want and we would grow to cater for that.

jsilence 6y ago
Is the company still operating?
- hanniabu 6y ago
  Nope, funding ran dry