4 ms·

Too many standards to follow, too many APIs, too complicated. Sometimes I wonder if the web standards aren't designed specifically to prevent any meaningful co

by ttt0 6y ago

Too many standards to follow, too many APIs, too complicated. Sometimes I wonder if the web standards aren't designed specifically to prevent any meaningful competition.

shuntress 6y ago
Web standards are designed for cooperation not competition.
- coldtea 6y ago
  Back in the day yes. Modern web standards upgrades are designed (a) because Google wants them, (b) for regulatory capture -- making it too difficult for a browser to be created (I'm abusing the term to refer to behavior regulated by "web standards").
  - Leherenn 6y ago
    (c) because they provide features requested by developers/users. Compare modern JS to JS from 10 years ago, it's pretty clear Google is not the only one benefitting from the new standards.
    - coldtea 6y ago
      >because they provide features requested by developers/users That would be if Google cared for developers/users.
- ttt0 6y ago
  The question is cooperation between who exactly? A cooperation can turn into a collusion. And all I can see as members of these boards is a bunch of corporations, that are known for using underhanded tactics.
- Devasta 6y ago
  Web standards are whatever Google says web standards are, and will always be adjusted to whatever Chrome does.
- deckard1 6y ago
  This has never been true. We wouldn't have JavaScript if Netscape didn't go off and do their own thing. Netscape and Microsoft were locked in a fierce embrace-and-extend battle for the web. XMLHttpRequest wasn't even a standard when Gmail came out in 2004, and wasn't a standard until at least 2006. Web standards merely describe the current world of web browsers and attempt to retroactively take credit for it.
  - shuntress 6y ago
    >Web standards merely describe the current world of web browsers and attempt to retroactively take credit for it. I'm not sure I understand what you mean here by "take credit" but, that aside, are you suggesting that it would have been easier for Netscape and Microsoft to cooperate (or for gmail to support both) without some standards?
ytpete 6y ago
Looking at the holistic picture (as anyone implementing an entire browser must), it's probably a stretch to say they're "designed" at all – web standards are a patchwork of almost archaeological layers built up over several decades. Even many deprecated bits must still be implemented to support the millions of websites users will want to visit. Backwards compatibility is hard :-/

by ttt0 6y ago

Too many standards to follow, too many APIs, too complicated. Sometimes I wonder if the web standards aren't designed specifically to prevent any meaningful competition.

shuntress 6y ago

Web standards are designed for cooperation not competition.

coldtea 6y ago
Back in the day yes. Modern web standards upgrades are designed (a) because Google wants them, (b) for regulatory capture -- making it too difficult for a browser to be created (I'm abusing the term to refer to behavior regulated by "web standards").
- Leherenn 6y ago
  (c) because they provide features requested by developers/users. Compare modern JS to JS from 10 years ago, it's pretty clear Google is not the only one benefitting from the new standards.
  - coldtea 6y ago
    >because they provide features requested by developers/users That would be if Google cared for developers/users.
ttt0 6y ago
The question is cooperation between who exactly? A cooperation can turn into a collusion. And all I can see as members of these boards is a bunch of corporations, that are known for using underhanded tactics.
Devasta 6y ago
Web standards are whatever Google says web standards are, and will always be adjusted to whatever Chrome does.
deckard1 6y ago
This has never been true. We wouldn't have JavaScript if Netscape didn't go off and do their own thing. Netscape and Microsoft were locked in a fierce embrace-and-extend battle for the web. XMLHttpRequest wasn't even a standard when Gmail came out in 2004, and wasn't a standard until at least 2006. Web standards merely describe the current world of web browsers and attempt to retroactively take credit for it.
- shuntress 6y ago
  >Web standards merely describe the current world of web browsers and attempt to retroactively take credit for it. I'm not sure I understand what you mean here by "take credit" but, that aside, are you suggesting that it would have been easier for Netscape and Microsoft to cooperate (or for gmail to support both) without some standards?

ytpete 6y ago

Looking at the holistic picture (as anyone implementing an entire browser must), it's probably a stretch to say they're "designed" at all – web standards are a patchwork of almost archaeological layers built up over several decades. Even many deprecated bits must still be implemented to support the millions of websites users will want to visit. Backwards compatibility is hard :-/