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On iOS there are no web browsers other than Safari, per the app store rules. "Chrome" / "Firefox" / etc on iOS are just basically skins on top of Webkit. See

by skrowl 6y ago

On iOS there are no web browsers other than Safari, per the app store rules. "Chrome" / "Firefox" / etc on iOS are just basically skins on top of Webkit. See 2.5.6 here - https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ This is why you don't get any of the features / extensions / etc of Chrome or Firefox on iOS. Apple does this so that the mobile web can never replace apps that they have a monopoly on and get a % from. If you could just visit netflix.com and have it install a Netflix SPA that worked as well as the native app, why would you ever install the native app? Edit after reading replies - lol, that programming of Apple users to believe "we need an app for every possible site".

coldtea 6y ago
>Apple does this so that the mobile web can never replace apps that they have a monopoly on and get a % from Or you know, because they disallow dynamic code execution of arbitrary downloaded code in apps, and JIT JS compilers do just that. >If you could just visit netflix.com and have it install a Netflix SPA that worked as well as the native app, why would you ever install the native app? It's like asking "why would you ever use a native app". Because it's faster, native, and much more convenient? Take the best desktop browser engine, e.g. Chrome, and put it inside a mobile browser app. Still, I (and most I guess) wouldn't use it to watch Netflix over individual apps.
- PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
  I can't speak to the mobile/desktop distinction, but comparing "watching Netflix in Firefox on my desktop" with "watching Netflix on my LG WebOS TV", there's barely any difference. If anything, the browser version wins because of the superior input devices (kbd, mouse) attached to it compared with the TV. This suggests to me that there would be little difference when comparing mobile/desktop or app/browser, other than the netflix logo being the point of entry (and if you could run the SPA literally like an app, no difference at all).
  - coldtea 6y ago
    How many watch web-based Netflix on their Android phone, where Chrome is available, and "Safari" doesn't hold the marvel of web apps back? How many care to use web based apps over native apps in Android?
  - filleduchaos 6y ago
    > watching Netflix on my LG WebOS TV No offence but what do you think applications for Web OS are written with?
- lern_too_spel 6y ago
  > Or you know, because they disallow dynamic code execution of arbitrary downloaded code in apps, and JIT JS compilers do just that. No, they explicitly disallow other implementations, whether they JIT or not. Since Apple's WebKit is missing so many features, this has the effect that GP noted. "2.5.6 Apps that browse the web must use the appropriate WebKit framework and WebKit Javascript." https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/
  - coldtea 6y ago
    >No, they explicitly disallow other implementations, whether they JIT or not. Since Apple's WebKit is missing so many features, this has the effect that GP noted. So, do you know people who prefer web apps over native apps for their Android, where "other browsers" are not disallowed, and Chrome is available? I'm sure you'll find some. I doubt you'll find any significant percentage though. I, personally, never do, and haven't seen any doing it in the wild, except for things there's not an app for...
    - lern_too_spel 6y ago
      > So, do you know people who prefer web apps over native apps for their Android, where "other browsers" are not disallowed, and Chrome is available? I do. Twitter's PWA is superior to its native app, and I can customize it with extensions. I prefer mobile Firefox over mobile Chrome though.
- have_faith 6y ago
  >Still, I (and most I guess) wouldn't use it to watch Netflix over individual apps. If the experience is so much better why are Apple scared to let other browsers into the app store? Phones are general purpose computers for the majority of the world's population, exercising such authoritarian grip over what a user can do with the device is very depressing to see being defended.
  - coldtea 6y ago
    >If the experience is so much better why are Apple scared to let other browsers into the app store? Well, the weasel word "scared" kind of begs the question. Who said it's "scared"? Apple spearheaded the modern browser with Safari. Chrome wasn't even a thing then (it forked off of Apple's work on Safari/Webkit later, just like v8 came after Apple's own JSC JIT work). As for Mobile Safari, it took several years for Android browsers to come close: Android Browser in particular was a piece of crap, slower, and lacking more features, than Mobile Safari. Was Google also "scared" of web apps? Also note that, when Apple suggested to developers they make their own web apps in lack of a native SDK, most dissed those and wanted, nay, demanded a native SDK. And Mobile Safari is not exactly some bad browser holding those apps back. You can watch Netflix on mobile safari, on the web, if you so want. Why would you though? And here's the 1000 pound argument: do you see many people watching Netflix on Android Chrome, as opposed to using the Android Netflix app? Didn't think so. Why would they do it on the iPhone then, if Chrome was available in the App Store? >Phones are general purpose computers for the majority of the world's population Not even close.
    - roca 6y ago
      Mobile Safari does hold the Web back. Examples are easy to find: Safari doesn't support the standard unprefixed fullscreen API, while Firefox and Chrome have for years, so Web developers have to write a bunch of compatibility crap or accept fullscreen not working on iOS. Firefox and Chrome have supported WebGL2 for years, iOS Safari still doesn't.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
- SahAssar 6y ago
  > Or you know, because they disallow dynamic code execution of arbitrary downloaded code in apps, and JIT JS compilers do just that. What would you call a webview? Is it that much different if it is webkit or gecko or blink doing it? If I used a webview to run js-linux, xfce and firefox should that be disallowed too?
  - floatboth 6y ago
    The code of the webview is made by Apple, it's part of the OS – so it doesn't abide by App Store rules.
dhritzkiv 6y ago
Is there anything stopping Netflix from working in Safari on iOS? and then being installed as a bookmark to the Home Screen? I believe it's Netflix that prefers that users use the app.
- lern_too_spel 6y ago
  Off the top of my head, mobile Safari can't handle push notifications for new content or downloading videos to watch later. I'm sure there are other problems with it as well.
  - dhritzkiv 6y ago
    Good points. Being able to download/cache content reliably would be welcome, on all browsers. However, I haven't seen a good example of using PWAs' storage APIs to cache video content, Safari or otherwise. Lack of push notifications in iOS Safari is a giant shortcoming. It's especially baffling since it exists for Safari on macOS. That being said, I can't say that Netflix's push notifications (in the app) are particularly useful (to me). They always spam me with newly released yet irrelevant in-house produced titles.
filleduchaos 6y ago
Exactly. As we can see, everybody that uses Android watches Netflix on the web, and the Netflix Android app is left to languish with a measly 1B+ installs. There's clearly no reason why a long-running, DRM-heavy video streaming service like Netflix would want an actual native app on mobile devices.

by skrowl 6y ago

coldtea 6y ago

>Apple does this so that the mobile web can never replace apps that they have a monopoly on and get a % from Or you know, because they disallow dynamic code execution of arbitrary downloaded code in apps, and JIT JS compilers do just that. >If you could just visit netflix.com and have it install a Netflix SPA that worked as well as the native app, why would you ever install the native app? It's like asking "why would you ever use a native app". Because it's faster, native, and much more convenient? Take the best desktop browser engine, e.g. Chrome, and put it inside a mobile browser app. Still, I (and most I guess) wouldn't use it to watch Netflix over individual apps.

PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
I can't speak to the mobile/desktop distinction, but comparing "watching Netflix in Firefox on my desktop" with "watching Netflix on my LG WebOS TV", there's barely any difference. If anything, the browser version wins because of the superior input devices (kbd, mouse) attached to it compared with the TV. This suggests to me that there would be little difference when comparing mobile/desktop or app/browser, other than the netflix logo being the point of entry (and if you could run the SPA literally like an app, no difference at all).
- coldtea 6y ago
  How many watch web-based Netflix on their Android phone, where Chrome is available, and "Safari" doesn't hold the marvel of web apps back? How many care to use web based apps over native apps in Android?
- filleduchaos 6y ago
  > watching Netflix on my LG WebOS TV No offence but what do you think applications for Web OS are written with?
lern_too_spel 6y ago
> Or you know, because they disallow dynamic code execution of arbitrary downloaded code in apps, and JIT JS compilers do just that. No, they explicitly disallow other implementations, whether they JIT or not. Since Apple's WebKit is missing so many features, this has the effect that GP noted. "2.5.6 Apps that browse the web must use the appropriate WebKit framework and WebKit Javascript." https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/
- coldtea 6y ago
  >No, they explicitly disallow other implementations, whether they JIT or not. Since Apple's WebKit is missing so many features, this has the effect that GP noted. So, do you know people who prefer web apps over native apps for their Android, where "other browsers" are not disallowed, and Chrome is available? I'm sure you'll find some. I doubt you'll find any significant percentage though. I, personally, never do, and haven't seen any doing it in the wild, except for things there's not an app for...
  - lern_too_spel 6y ago
    > So, do you know people who prefer web apps over native apps for their Android, where "other browsers" are not disallowed, and Chrome is available? I do. Twitter's PWA is superior to its native app, and I can customize it with extensions. I prefer mobile Firefox over mobile Chrome though.
have_faith 6y ago
>Still, I (and most I guess) wouldn't use it to watch Netflix over individual apps. If the experience is so much better why are Apple scared to let other browsers into the app store? Phones are general purpose computers for the majority of the world's population, exercising such authoritarian grip over what a user can do with the device is very depressing to see being defended.
- coldtea 6y ago
  >If the experience is so much better why are Apple scared to let other browsers into the app store? Well, the weasel word "scared" kind of begs the question. Who said it's "scared"? Apple spearheaded the modern browser with Safari. Chrome wasn't even a thing then (it forked off of Apple's work on Safari/Webkit later, just like v8 came after Apple's own JSC JIT work). As for Mobile Safari, it took several years for Android browsers to come close: Android Browser in particular was a piece of crap, slower, and lacking more features, than Mobile Safari. Was Google also "scared" of web apps? Also note that, when Apple suggested to developers they make their own web apps in lack of a native SDK, most dissed those and wanted, nay, demanded a native SDK. And Mobile Safari is not exactly some bad browser holding those apps back. You can watch Netflix on mobile safari, on the web, if you so want. Why would you though? And here's the 1000 pound argument: do you see many people watching Netflix on Android Chrome, as opposed to using the Android Netflix app? Didn't think so. Why would they do it on the iPhone then, if Chrome was available in the App Store? >Phones are general purpose computers for the majority of the world's population Not even close.
  - roca 6y ago
    Mobile Safari does hold the Web back. Examples are easy to find: Safari doesn't support the standard unprefixed fullscreen API, while Firefox and Chrome have for years, so Web developers have to write a bunch of compatibility crap or accept fullscreen not working on iOS. Firefox and Chrome have supported WebGL2 for years, iOS Safari still doesn't.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
SahAssar 6y ago
> Or you know, because they disallow dynamic code execution of arbitrary downloaded code in apps, and JIT JS compilers do just that. What would you call a webview? Is it that much different if it is webkit or gecko or blink doing it? If I used a webview to run js-linux, xfce and firefox should that be disallowed too?
- floatboth 6y ago
  The code of the webview is made by Apple, it's part of the OS – so it doesn't abide by App Store rules.

dhritzkiv 6y ago

Is there anything stopping Netflix from working in Safari on iOS? and then being installed as a bookmark to the Home Screen? I believe it's Netflix that prefers that users use the app.

lern_too_spel 6y ago
Off the top of my head, mobile Safari can't handle push notifications for new content or downloading videos to watch later. I'm sure there are other problems with it as well.
- dhritzkiv 6y ago
  Good points. Being able to download/cache content reliably would be welcome, on all browsers. However, I haven't seen a good example of using PWAs' storage APIs to cache video content, Safari or otherwise. Lack of push notifications in iOS Safari is a giant shortcoming. It's especially baffling since it exists for Safari on macOS. That being said, I can't say that Netflix's push notifications (in the app) are particularly useful (to me). They always spam me with newly released yet irrelevant in-house produced titles.

filleduchaos 6y ago

Exactly. As we can see, everybody that uses Android watches Netflix on the web, and the Netflix Android app is left to languish with a measly 1B+ installs. There's clearly no reason why a long-running, DRM-heavy video streaming service like Netflix would want an actual native app on mobile devices.