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The production licenses for RHEL are certainly expensive, but it's not my job to decide whether they are worth it. My job is to develop and ship software to cus

The production licenses for RHEL are certainly expensive, but it's not my job to decide whether they are worth it. My job is to develop and ship software to customers that used to run Ubuntu, CentOS, and sometimes RHEL. To compile/build/package that software we use docker containers, which provide nice isolation and hygiene and also guarantee user-space ABI compatibility to the target system. What I'd like to know: How can I user containers to develop for RHEL now? Is there some "short-lived" clause I could depend on or do I have to buy a license for every container I might want to spin up?

dralley 6y ago
Look into the RHEL Universal Base Image. https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/introducing-red-hat-universal-base-image https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/introducing-red-hat-universal... https://developers.redhat.com/articles/ubi-faq#introduction https://developers.redhat.com/articles/ubi-faq#introduction re: licensing, the FAQ says: Do I need a subscription to use UBI? No, the Red Hat Universal Base Images and all associated content can be used for development and deployment without the need for a Red Hat subscription. However, for a fully supported operational experience and access to an expanded list of non-UBI tools, containers built on UBI must be deployed on a Red Hat platform such as OpenShift or RHEL. Accessing non-UBI content does require a Red Hat subscription.
chasil 6y ago
Red Hat offers a "no support" server license for $350/year, which is the lowest licensing tier. Tiers with more capability and support are available for $800, and $1300. https://www.redhat.com/en/store/red-hat-enterprise-linux-server https://www.redhat.com/en/store/red-hat-enterprise-linux-ser... Oracle has a larger range of tiers. The "no support" license is $120/year. Tiers with more capability and support are available for $500, $1200, $1400, and $2300. Oracle Linux can be used in production without a paid license of any kind; Red Hat Linux cannot be used in this way for large deployments (excepting the new 16-seat license for a developer account). Red Hat is aggressive with software audits; I have seen one. https://www.oracle.com/linux/ https://www.oracle.com/linux/ Both Oracle and Red Hat now have complete toolsets to convert support between an installed CentOS/RedHat/Oracle OS. Red Hat can now convert an installed CentOS or Oracle Linux to RHEL; previously a wipe and reinstall was required ("have fun reinstalling your system" is still on Oracle's CentOS site). The description looks much more thorough in replacing all possible packages with Red Hat versions: https://access.redhat.com/articles/2360841 https://access.redhat.com/articles/2360841 Oracle does not replace CentOS or RedHat RPMs in their conversion (AFAIK), so it is much less violent on the platform changes. https://github.com/oracle/centos2ol https://github.com/oracle/centos2ol https://linux.oracle.com/switch/centos/ https://linux.oracle.com/switch/centos/ https://blogs.oracle.com/linux/reasons-for-switching-centos-to-oracle-linux https://blogs.oracle.com/linux/reasons-for-switching-centos-... Red Hat has terminated two major platforms over the last two decades - the original Red Hat Linux, which was terminated at v9, and now CentOS. Oracle has "somewhat" terminated a platform, Oracle Linux for SPARC, which was only supported for two minor releases. The Linux for ARM64 and AMD64/x86 seem reasonably healthy. There is other baggage in and between these corporations, but the track record on Linux OS platforms between these two is demonstrably different.
- dralley 6y ago
  >Oracle has "somewhat" terminated a platform, Oracle Linux for SPARC, which was only supported for two minor releases. The Linux for ARM64 and AMD64/x86 seem reasonably healthy. You're forgetting: * They killed OpenSolaris by making it proprietary again * They effectively killed Solaris (formerly OpenSolaris) without the formality of making it official dtrace.org/blogs/bmc/2017/09/04/the-sudden-death-and-eternal-life-of-solaris/
  - chasil 6y ago
    I did say "track record on Linux OS platforms," but I will grant you that Solaris has contracted under Oracle. However, there is a long list of platforms that would never have survived elsewhere. JD Edwards, Peoplesoft, and Siebel are prime examples. And I am still using the Oracle RDB database platform. Red Hat would have euthanized all of these long, long ago.
    - dralley 6y ago
      Do you not find it slightly unfair to count RHL, which began in 1995 and ended in 2003, when Oracle Linux wasn't released until 2006?
      - chasil 6y ago
        At the time, it ended a major professional chapter of my life. I do not consider it unfair.
    - _-david-_ 6y ago
      > I will grant you that Solaris has contracted under Oracle. Not to defend Oracle, but I am pretty sure all proprietary unix have contracted over the last 10 years. AIX, HP-UX and whatever other flavors don't seem to be doing well regardless of who is controlling it. If Sun remained in control I am not sure how much better Solaris would actually be doing.
- technick 6y ago
  My previous employer from 2017 was paying around $68 per license from Red Hat and it didn't include support. It wasn't a massive volume deal either, had less than 50 RHEL servers in the environment.

dralley 6y ago

Look into the RHEL Universal Base Image. https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/introducing-red-hat-universal-base-image https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/introducing-red-hat-universal... https://developers.redhat.com/articles/ubi-faq#introduction https://developers.redhat.com/articles/ubi-faq#introduction re: licensing, the FAQ says: Do I need a subscription to use UBI? No, the Red Hat Universal Base Images and all associated content can be used for development and deployment without the need for a Red Hat subscription. However, for a fully supported operational experience and access to an expanded list of non-UBI tools, containers built on UBI must be deployed on a Red Hat platform such as OpenShift or RHEL. Accessing non-UBI content does require a Red Hat subscription.

chasil 6y ago

Red Hat offers a "no support" server license for $350/year, which is the lowest licensing tier. Tiers with more capability and support are available for $800, and $1300. https://www.redhat.com/en/store/red-hat-enterprise-linux-server https://www.redhat.com/en/store/red-hat-enterprise-linux-ser... Oracle has a larger range of tiers. The "no support" license is $120/year. Tiers with more capability and support are available for $500, $1200, $1400, and $2300. Oracle Linux can be used in production without a paid license of any kind; Red Hat Linux cannot be used in this way for large deployments (excepting the new 16-seat license for a developer account). Red Hat is aggressive with software audits; I have seen one. https://www.oracle.com/linux/ https://www.oracle.com/linux/ Both Oracle and Red Hat now have complete toolsets to convert support between an installed CentOS/RedHat/Oracle OS. Red Hat can now convert an installed CentOS or Oracle Linux to RHEL; previously a wipe and reinstall was required ("have fun reinstalling your system" is still on Oracle's CentOS site). The description looks much more thorough in replacing all possible packages with Red Hat versions: https://access.redhat.com/articles/2360841 https://access.redhat.com/articles/2360841 Oracle does not replace CentOS or RedHat RPMs in their conversion (AFAIK), so it is much less violent on the platform changes. https://github.com/oracle/centos2ol https://github.com/oracle/centos2ol https://linux.oracle.com/switch/centos/ https://linux.oracle.com/switch/centos/ https://blogs.oracle.com/linux/reasons-for-switching-centos-to-oracle-linux https://blogs.oracle.com/linux/reasons-for-switching-centos-... Red Hat has terminated two major platforms over the last two decades - the original Red Hat Linux, which was terminated at v9, and now CentOS. Oracle has "somewhat" terminated a platform, Oracle Linux for SPARC, which was only supported for two minor releases. The Linux for ARM64 and AMD64/x86 seem reasonably healthy. There is other baggage in and between these corporations, but the track record on Linux OS platforms between these two is demonstrably different.

dralley 6y ago
>Oracle has "somewhat" terminated a platform, Oracle Linux for SPARC, which was only supported for two minor releases. The Linux for ARM64 and AMD64/x86 seem reasonably healthy. You're forgetting: * They killed OpenSolaris by making it proprietary again * They effectively killed Solaris (formerly OpenSolaris) without the formality of making it official dtrace.org/blogs/bmc/2017/09/04/the-sudden-death-and-eternal-life-of-solaris/
- chasil 6y ago
  I did say "track record on Linux OS platforms," but I will grant you that Solaris has contracted under Oracle. However, there is a long list of platforms that would never have survived elsewhere. JD Edwards, Peoplesoft, and Siebel are prime examples. And I am still using the Oracle RDB database platform. Red Hat would have euthanized all of these long, long ago.
  - dralley 6y ago
    Do you not find it slightly unfair to count RHL, which began in 1995 and ended in 2003, when Oracle Linux wasn't released until 2006?
    - chasil 6y ago
      At the time, it ended a major professional chapter of my life. I do not consider it unfair.
  - _-david-_ 6y ago
    > I will grant you that Solaris has contracted under Oracle. Not to defend Oracle, but I am pretty sure all proprietary unix have contracted over the last 10 years. AIX, HP-UX and whatever other flavors don't seem to be doing well regardless of who is controlling it. If Sun remained in control I am not sure how much better Solaris would actually be doing.
technick 6y ago
My previous employer from 2017 was paying around $68 per license from Red Hat and it didn't include support. It wasn't a massive volume deal either, had less than 50 RHEL servers in the environment.