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(RH Employee) > First, they should have announced this when they killed CentOS. I agree. >Second, this is only of value to the teeny tiny companies and indiv

(RH Employee) > First, they should have announced this when they killed CentOS. I agree. >Second, this is only of value to the teeny tiny companies and individual users with a single server in their home. Small companies with any expectation of growth should probably just use Rocky instead from the get go. Without saying too much - stay tuned for further announcements.

arbitrage 6y ago
yeah, stop playing games, redhat? just say what you're going to say already. i have no idea why you're trying to focus so hard on building mindshare, building a mystery around it like you're a sarah mclachlan tribute band, but you already blew it. go back to what you're good at, please.
lucideer 6y ago
I understand as an RH employee you're likely not in a position to make decisions about what you can disclose when, but... (I'm sure you're aware) your first answer contradicts your second.
- dralley 6y ago
  There's no contradiction, only an acknowledgement that (in my personal opinion) the piecemeal way these plans are being announced is understandably frustrating, but that they are legitimately serious about making RHEL easier to use across a spectrum of use cases (which the official post is pretty clear about).
  - LeifCarrotson 6y ago
    It's worse than frustrating, it's damaging for Red Hat. It doesn't matter much to me anymore, I've already migrated my small business internal server that was running Centos 7 to Debian. We had basically just a fileserver, FTP box, and a couple VMs for some time clock, wiki, and building security systems, so nothing we were running yet was CentOS specific. But in case it can be useful to you, please share with your team that the writing they're putting on the wall looks pretty bad. Knowing I'd have to update eventually, I just took the safe option, which is no longer any distro controlled by Red Hat. I didn't want to leave our server in a state where we could be building dependencies on a platform that was likely to be pulled out from under us, and while RHEL isn't too expensive to just buy for one server, and we might have qualified for something free or something you've not yet announced, my test was surprisingly painless and the migration was easier than I anticipated.
    - syshum 6y ago
      I Agree 100% RedHat seems to forget the for the majority of CentOS users STABLITY was the driving factor in the choice to use CentOS. I am not sure what internal metrics they have, or if I am missing a glaring use case somewhere but from where I sit RedHat seems to completely miss the boat as to who is using CentOS in the real world. I want STABLE UNCHANGING SECURE systems, not the latest and greatest features, or some new shiny "cloudy" technology...
      - ghaff 6y ago
        And yet you're not willing to pay for it.
        syshum 6y ago
        I dont drive those decisions butI will say if they had better "no support" options my org probably would buy it. We have no desire for RHEL support, they had had bad experiences in the past which was one of the driving reason to drop RHEL for CentOS, why pay for support if it sucks?
  - Traster 6y ago
    That's fine, but it would be negligent of a company to wait and hope that Red Hat pulls a rabbit out of a hat. The plan for most companies is going to be a new distro, and they're not going to reconsider when RH announces something new because by then decisions have been made and trust has been lost.
  - chasil 6y ago
    My guess is that at least 10% of the CentOS yum repository traffic was immediately lost at the announcement, as it switched to Oracle. When your house is on fire, and you have a very short time to save your prized possessions, haste easily leads to observable contradictory actions.
chasil 6y ago
Red Hat was not expecting the reaction to killing CentOS. The need to expand the developer program into production seats could not have been anticipated. I don't know of any other vendor that wraps developer accounts into production licenses. Notice that this access is in no way promised to the end of support for RHEL 8. I will say again, Red Hat has terminated two major Linux platforms over the last two decades - the original Red Hat Linux, which was terminated at v9, and now CentOS. Oracle has "somewhat" terminated a Linux platform, Oracle Linux for SPARC, which was only supported for two minor releases. Oracle Linux for ARM64 and AMD64/x86 seem reasonably healthy. There is other baggage in and between these corporations, but the track record on Linux OS platforms between these two is demonstrably different. The free converters between them should be used fluidly.
- yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
  > The need to expand the developer program into production seats could not have been anticipated. I don't follow. Are you suggesting that RH actually didn't realize that people were running CentOS at scale in production?
  - chasil 6y ago
    I see the decision to convert to CentOS stream as driven by two motivations, cost containment, and facilitating outside contributions by pushing CentOS towards Fedora (and away from RHEL stability). I might be misreading these motivations. With this management perspective, the CentOS community reaction to the retraction of the end of life date, and potential reduction in stability, was likely not anticipated.
    - BossingAround 6y ago
      > pushing CentOS towards Fedora (and away from RHEL stability) CentOS streams is literally RHEL with fixed major version and rolling minor versions. So, in the past, you got CentOS 7.1, then 7.2, etc., with streams, you get CentOS 8.x. Saying that this is moving away from RHEL stability sounds highly disingenuous. Are you saying you've seen RHEL 7.X to break as opposed to 7.(X-1) version, and your solution was to wait for RHEL 7.(X+1)?
justapassenger 6y ago
> Without saying too much - stay tuned for further announcements. It's a horrible way to treat users. They aren't paying customers, so whatever for RH short-term bottom line. But amount of community backslash approach like that is bringing can have negative long term impact. RH pulled the rug from under the people, and is telling them to stay tuned. I wouldn't base my infra on a system like that. But that's good for overall Linux community - RH has way too much power there.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

arbitrage 6y ago

yeah, stop playing games, redhat? just say what you're going to say already. i have no idea why you're trying to focus so hard on building mindshare, building a mystery around it like you're a sarah mclachlan tribute band, but you already blew it. go back to what you're good at, please.

lucideer 6y ago

I understand as an RH employee you're likely not in a position to make decisions about what you can disclose when, but... (I'm sure you're aware) your first answer contradicts your second.

dralley 6y ago
There's no contradiction, only an acknowledgement that (in my personal opinion) the piecemeal way these plans are being announced is understandably frustrating, but that they are legitimately serious about making RHEL easier to use across a spectrum of use cases (which the official post is pretty clear about).
- LeifCarrotson 6y ago
  It's worse than frustrating, it's damaging for Red Hat. It doesn't matter much to me anymore, I've already migrated my small business internal server that was running Centos 7 to Debian. We had basically just a fileserver, FTP box, and a couple VMs for some time clock, wiki, and building security systems, so nothing we were running yet was CentOS specific. But in case it can be useful to you, please share with your team that the writing they're putting on the wall looks pretty bad. Knowing I'd have to update eventually, I just took the safe option, which is no longer any distro controlled by Red Hat. I didn't want to leave our server in a state where we could be building dependencies on a platform that was likely to be pulled out from under us, and while RHEL isn't too expensive to just buy for one server, and we might have qualified for something free or something you've not yet announced, my test was surprisingly painless and the migration was easier than I anticipated.
  - syshum 6y ago
    I Agree 100% RedHat seems to forget the for the majority of CentOS users STABLITY was the driving factor in the choice to use CentOS. I am not sure what internal metrics they have, or if I am missing a glaring use case somewhere but from where I sit RedHat seems to completely miss the boat as to who is using CentOS in the real world. I want STABLE UNCHANGING SECURE systems, not the latest and greatest features, or some new shiny "cloudy" technology...
    - ghaff 6y ago
      And yet you're not willing to pay for it.
      - syshum 6y ago
        I dont drive those decisions butI will say if they had better "no support" options my org probably would buy it. We have no desire for RHEL support, they had had bad experiences in the past which was one of the driving reason to drop RHEL for CentOS, why pay for support if it sucks?
- Traster 6y ago
  That's fine, but it would be negligent of a company to wait and hope that Red Hat pulls a rabbit out of a hat. The plan for most companies is going to be a new distro, and they're not going to reconsider when RH announces something new because by then decisions have been made and trust has been lost.
- chasil 6y ago
  My guess is that at least 10% of the CentOS yum repository traffic was immediately lost at the announcement, as it switched to Oracle. When your house is on fire, and you have a very short time to save your prized possessions, haste easily leads to observable contradictory actions.

chasil 6y ago

Red Hat was not expecting the reaction to killing CentOS. The need to expand the developer program into production seats could not have been anticipated. I don't know of any other vendor that wraps developer accounts into production licenses. Notice that this access is in no way promised to the end of support for RHEL 8. I will say again, Red Hat has terminated two major Linux platforms over the last two decades - the original Red Hat Linux, which was terminated at v9, and now CentOS. Oracle has "somewhat" terminated a Linux platform, Oracle Linux for SPARC, which was only supported for two minor releases. Oracle Linux for ARM64 and AMD64/x86 seem reasonably healthy. There is other baggage in and between these corporations, but the track record on Linux OS platforms between these two is demonstrably different. The free converters between them should be used fluidly.

yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
> The need to expand the developer program into production seats could not have been anticipated. I don't follow. Are you suggesting that RH actually didn't realize that people were running CentOS at scale in production?
- chasil 6y ago
  I see the decision to convert to CentOS stream as driven by two motivations, cost containment, and facilitating outside contributions by pushing CentOS towards Fedora (and away from RHEL stability). I might be misreading these motivations. With this management perspective, the CentOS community reaction to the retraction of the end of life date, and potential reduction in stability, was likely not anticipated.
  - BossingAround 6y ago
    > pushing CentOS towards Fedora (and away from RHEL stability) CentOS streams is literally RHEL with fixed major version and rolling minor versions. So, in the past, you got CentOS 7.1, then 7.2, etc., with streams, you get CentOS 8.x. Saying that this is moving away from RHEL stability sounds highly disingenuous. Are you saying you've seen RHEL 7.X to break as opposed to 7.(X-1) version, and your solution was to wait for RHEL 7.(X+1)?

justapassenger 6y ago

> Without saying too much - stay tuned for further announcements. It's a horrible way to treat users. They aren't paying customers, so whatever for RH short-term bottom line. But amount of community backslash approach like that is bringing can have negative long term impact. RH pulled the rug from under the people, and is telling them to stay tuned. I wouldn't base my infra on a system like that. But that's good for overall Linux community - RH has way too much power there.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]