4 ms·

You should try DS9 when you're done with TNG. It's very different, but still great. I think they're some of the best shows ever made, especially because they di

You should try DS9 when you're done with TNG. It's very different, but still great. I think they're some of the best shows ever made, especially because they didn't tiptoe around ethical dilemmas, they made them a main part of each episode's plot.

mrbonner 6y ago
Ann, the episode about Commander Data being asked to be dissected for the study of his body? Jean Luc brilliantly relates this idea of cloning the entire android to serve human as a tread toward slavery. They are way ahead of us in time.
- StavrosK 6y ago
  The one with the court to determine whether Data is sentient/human or property? Yeah, that's one of my favorite episodes, and where I realized how amazing the show was.
- floren 6y ago
  "The Measure of a Man", s2e9
throwanem 6y ago
After DS9 (or maybe before it), also take a look at Babylon 5, the show that arguably inspired DS9 and certainly did a lot of things that no Trek show to date has been bold enough to try. It's a bit camp by today's standards, and the first season struggles a bit in places - but the same can be fairly said of TNG, and the depth of B5's narrative and characterization remains in many ways unequaled since its original run in the mid-90s.
- StavrosK 6y ago
  I remember watching Babylon 5 when I was young, but I was probably too young to grasp all the meanings. I will rewatch it, thanks!
  - throwanem 6y ago
    Oh, do! I also saw a few early episodes as a kid, but didn't really have a chance to get what they were trying to do; it wasn't until years later, when I had a chance to watch the full series straight through thanks to a friend's carefully made VHS tapes, that any of what I was seeing really made sense to me. Nothing since then has even come close to replacing B5 at the head of my SF TV affections. Reflecting on that experience, I think the major flaw of B5 is that, in structure and intent, it was twenty or more years ahead of its time. Given the handicaps under which the creators then had to labor, it's even more remarkable how much they accomplished - B5 might have been the very first example of what we today call the 'binge-worthy show', made on a shoestring in a time when syndication and time slots and missed episodes were still problems that a show could have. This show overcame them admirably - even so, I can't help but wish a little for the chance to see what the same people could've accomplished today, with the kind of resources available for something like Stranger Things. That won't happen, of course, not least because the show is niche even by comparison with something like Firefly. For the same reason, even a Trek-style HD remaster is unlikely - a shame in its own right, since the then-revolutionary CGI space effects are by far the part of the show that's aged most badly, and a shame all over again because the creators were looking far enough ahead to shoot in 16:9 and 5.1 surround throughout, which would give an HD remaster the kind of payoff that, if we're being honest, the ones done for old Trek shows never really have. In any case, it's a small miracle the show got made at all, and another that it ended up being so close to what JMS intended it to be. Anyone who can enjoy TNG or DS9 today can, I think, enjoy B5 at least as well, and on that basis I recommend it without the slightest reservation.
    - StavrosK 6y ago
      I'll definitely watch then, thank you. As a sidenote, I think that the TNG I watched has remastered CGI. I remember remarking how good the CGI looked for the 90s, and realized/heard later than they redid all the CGI. The new CGI was definitely not out of place, if not fairly good, but I'm not entirely sure that what I'm saying is true. Just mentioning it in case you wanted to look into it.
      - 6y ago
- mrec 6y ago
  Agree 100%. What always struck me most about it was the sheer ambition of it - not just the raw scale of the drama, not just setting things up in Season 1 that wouldn't pay off until the very end of Season 5 (if Michael O'Hare hadn't needed to be written out), but getting compelling long-term character arcs (especially for Londo and G'Kar) into small-screen SF for the first time. If I have one major gripe about the show, it's the way it was constantly padded out with filler eps at a time when JMS's ability to get the core storylines finished was still in doubt. The threat to S5 and resulting hasty rearrangement of S4 meant that the final season didn't hit with the weight it could have done; it felt like an afterthought rather than a climax.
- 7thaccount 6y ago
  B5 is arguably the best scifi show ever in my opinion. Amazing story, acting, ship battles, and philosophy
_Microft 6y ago
„Computer – erase that entire personal log“ This is from the DS9 episode „In the pale Moonlight“. Check Memory Alpha if you want to know more but be aware that reading about this episode would be a massive spoiler if you haven’t watched DS9. Either way DS9 is absolutely recommended.
nobody9999 6y ago
>You should try DS9 when you're done with TNG. It's very different, but still great. I'm going to recommend Babylon 5 for this as well. It's not nearly as utopian as Star Trek and focuses on many of the issues interacting with other people/groups/alien species that ST (DS9 does do this, in some respects) generally ignores. It also doesn't ignore capitalism, greed and general bad behavior like ST mostly does.

mrbonner 6y ago

Ann, the episode about Commander Data being asked to be dissected for the study of his body? Jean Luc brilliantly relates this idea of cloning the entire android to serve human as a tread toward slavery. They are way ahead of us in time.

StavrosK 6y ago
The one with the court to determine whether Data is sentient/human or property? Yeah, that's one of my favorite episodes, and where I realized how amazing the show was.
floren 6y ago
"The Measure of a Man", s2e9

throwanem 6y ago

After DS9 (or maybe before it), also take a look at Babylon 5, the show that arguably inspired DS9 and certainly did a lot of things that no Trek show to date has been bold enough to try. It's a bit camp by today's standards, and the first season struggles a bit in places - but the same can be fairly said of TNG, and the depth of B5's narrative and characterization remains in many ways unequaled since its original run in the mid-90s.

StavrosK 6y ago
I remember watching Babylon 5 when I was young, but I was probably too young to grasp all the meanings. I will rewatch it, thanks!
- throwanem 6y ago
  Oh, do! I also saw a few early episodes as a kid, but didn't really have a chance to get what they were trying to do; it wasn't until years later, when I had a chance to watch the full series straight through thanks to a friend's carefully made VHS tapes, that any of what I was seeing really made sense to me. Nothing since then has even come close to replacing B5 at the head of my SF TV affections. Reflecting on that experience, I think the major flaw of B5 is that, in structure and intent, it was twenty or more years ahead of its time. Given the handicaps under which the creators then had to labor, it's even more remarkable how much they accomplished - B5 might have been the very first example of what we today call the 'binge-worthy show', made on a shoestring in a time when syndication and time slots and missed episodes were still problems that a show could have. This show overcame them admirably - even so, I can't help but wish a little for the chance to see what the same people could've accomplished today, with the kind of resources available for something like Stranger Things. That won't happen, of course, not least because the show is niche even by comparison with something like Firefly. For the same reason, even a Trek-style HD remaster is unlikely - a shame in its own right, since the then-revolutionary CGI space effects are by far the part of the show that's aged most badly, and a shame all over again because the creators were looking far enough ahead to shoot in 16:9 and 5.1 surround throughout, which would give an HD remaster the kind of payoff that, if we're being honest, the ones done for old Trek shows never really have. In any case, it's a small miracle the show got made at all, and another that it ended up being so close to what JMS intended it to be. Anyone who can enjoy TNG or DS9 today can, I think, enjoy B5 at least as well, and on that basis I recommend it without the slightest reservation.
  - StavrosK 6y ago
    I'll definitely watch then, thank you. As a sidenote, I think that the TNG I watched has remastered CGI. I remember remarking how good the CGI looked for the 90s, and realized/heard later than they redid all the CGI. The new CGI was definitely not out of place, if not fairly good, but I'm not entirely sure that what I'm saying is true. Just mentioning it in case you wanted to look into it.
    - 6y ago
mrec 6y ago
Agree 100%. What always struck me most about it was the sheer ambition of it - not just the raw scale of the drama, not just setting things up in Season 1 that wouldn't pay off until the very end of Season 5 (if Michael O'Hare hadn't needed to be written out), but getting compelling long-term character arcs (especially for Londo and G'Kar) into small-screen SF for the first time. If I have one major gripe about the show, it's the way it was constantly padded out with filler eps at a time when JMS's ability to get the core storylines finished was still in doubt. The threat to S5 and resulting hasty rearrangement of S4 meant that the final season didn't hit with the weight it could have done; it felt like an afterthought rather than a climax.
7thaccount 6y ago
B5 is arguably the best scifi show ever in my opinion. Amazing story, acting, ship battles, and philosophy

_Microft 6y ago

„Computer – erase that entire personal log“ This is from the DS9 episode „In the pale Moonlight“. Check Memory Alpha if you want to know more but be aware that reading about this episode would be a massive spoiler if you haven’t watched DS9. Either way DS9 is absolutely recommended.

nobody9999 6y ago

>You should try DS9 when you're done with TNG. It's very different, but still great. I'm going to recommend Babylon 5 for this as well. It's not nearly as utopian as Star Trek and focuses on many of the issues interacting with other people/groups/alien species that ST (DS9 does do this, in some respects) generally ignores. It also doesn't ignore capitalism, greed and general bad behavior like ST mostly does.