4 ms·

First, taxes paid isn't wasted money. It's (theoretically) going to those who need it. Tax havens, along with other tax avoidance schemes, are pretty popular

First, taxes paid isn't wasted money. It's (theoretically) going to those who need it. Tax havens, along with other tax avoidance schemes, are pretty popular with the rich, which means governments are on the lookout for them. It's not as easy as you think. For example, if you're American, leaving for a year doesn't do a whole lot. Second, countries are locked down now but even after this pandemic is over, your limit is 90 days. If you're from a Schengen EU country you can get a residence in Monaco and just spend your time traveling. But again, I've heard that if you've ever paid taxes in France, for example, it might not be possible. There are cruise ships that exist for this purpose. Spending a year surrounded by those kinds of people would seem like a special sort of hell, to me, personally. If you can live abroad, generally, that's a great experience. Leaving family and friends can be a big cost for some people but if you can do it, it's recommended. Traveling is like meeting someone, living there for a couple months is like dating them, and longer is like moving in with them: you get to know them intimately, all of their idiosyncrasies and it influences you in ways you can't avoid. You end up being a different person, usually for the better. Like with everything, it's different per person. I always say: don't do anything just for money if you can help it -- and you usually can.

giantg2 6y ago
"First, taxes paid isn't wasted money. It's (theoretically) going to those who need it." Considering the GAO reports that over $100 Billion is wasted by the federal government annually, I find it hard to truly believe that it is going to those who need it (how's need even defined anyways?). The OP also states that he doesn't believe the money is being used properly.
- david927 6y ago
  "I don't believe the Fire Department is being as efficient as they can be, therefore I won't chip in my portion to help fund them." That's puerile and childish. You're not being principled, you're being greedy. You don't like its efficiencies? Help fix it. You don't want any of its services? Let's see how long you last without them, especially the police and military protecting that wealth. It's all a social contract and you don't get the services but get to opt out of paying for them because you got more and realized that you're a greedy, shitty little scumbag.
  - giantg2 6y ago
    He's not saying that he wants to get the services without paying. He's saying he wants to move to another country to keep more of his money. If you can pay 10% for the same services (or the level of services that you want) in one country, but it would cost your 45% in your current country, then why not switch? There's nothing wrong with that. You're still paying your share under the social contract.
    - chefkoch 6y ago
      He already got the services all his life. Or do you think he could have started his company without education, infrastructure and security?
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - giantg2 6y ago
        You're assuming his education was publically funded - it might not have been. Can you say that he required the infrastructure or security to be successful? So you're saying that immigration/emigration should be illegal? I believe people should be able to move if they want to if they follow the process. It's important that people can live under a government that they support and believe to be the best one for them. It sounds like he has been paying his taxes all these years. So he has been contributing his fair share. Don't forget, him leaving means one fewer person for the government to provide services for. Knowing that healthcare costs increase as one gets older, this could be a large amount if healthcare is something his taxes cover. Honestly, the logic that he owes society money for the past services is pretty convoluted. The government isn't keeping a tab of what people owe if they ever make more money. When then, would someone have paid their dues to society to earn the freedom to move? The people currently making money are paying current taxes. Are the kids in school paying taxes? No, it's the property owners, some of whom might not even have kids. Tax schemes are designed to collect the amount that society needs as an aggregate. They try to be logical or socially acceptable in how they are collected. Society has not implemented a tax scheme saying you owe more for previous services because your income went up. They could, but they haven't.
- aetherane 6y ago
  That is $300 per person, which is a small fraction of the overall budget.
  - giantg2 6y ago
    It can still make a difference in people's lives, especially to the poorest people.
Denniz 6y ago
I once made that decision, to move away to another city for 4 years. So can definitely agree that it is one of the best experiences to move away, at least once. On the other hand not sure if I would be ready to settle down for example in Zurich. Also, governments lookout for you. So basically if you start a business in my country and are then not satisfied, it becomes much more difficult to move away. You will have to pay a tax on the liquidation value of your company. Actually I never dealt with this stuff and was surprised about all the laws around this topic. "don't do anything just for money if you can help it -- and you usually can." Can't agree more. Been always my mindset as well. It changed a bit to be honest as I'm thinking about paying multiple millions in taxes that can be avoided just by moving to another city. Especially since the Government actually wasn't able to provide a good and fair regulatory framework. So there is a non-zero risk that they could kill the company.
- david927 6y ago
  It's funny that you chose Zurich for your example. It's a city I've lived in for many years and I think I can honestly say it's one of the great cities in the world. Safe, clean, and gorgeous. The language is really hard to learn, even if you know German, and almost impossible to sound like a local. It's also almost impossible to make friends except for expats here and there. So you're always an outsider in a town where they really don't care for outsiders. Otherwise, it's lovely. Someone else said it well: spend several months checking out any potential candidate location. Talk to expats. You'll get a really good idea of what it's like to live there.
  - Denniz 6y ago
    It was just most convenient choice. Good airport connection and as you said it's rating is quite high. Guess the language would be the most annoying thing. Other choices would be Malta or Cyprus regarding taxes, but they are far away and I think the cultural match would be in Swiss higher.
    - david927 6y ago
      If you like mountains, snow, skiing and hiking: do Zurich. If you like beaches, heat, and small French towns: do Monaco. (IMO)

giantg2 6y ago

"First, taxes paid isn't wasted money. It's (theoretically) going to those who need it." Considering the GAO reports that over $100 Billion is wasted by the federal government annually, I find it hard to truly believe that it is going to those who need it (how's need even defined anyways?). The OP also states that he doesn't believe the money is being used properly.

david927 6y ago
"I don't believe the Fire Department is being as efficient as they can be, therefore I won't chip in my portion to help fund them." That's puerile and childish. You're not being principled, you're being greedy. You don't like its efficiencies? Help fix it. You don't want any of its services? Let's see how long you last without them, especially the police and military protecting that wealth. It's all a social contract and you don't get the services but get to opt out of paying for them because you got more and realized that you're a greedy, shitty little scumbag.
- giantg2 6y ago
  He's not saying that he wants to get the services without paying. He's saying he wants to move to another country to keep more of his money. If you can pay 10% for the same services (or the level of services that you want) in one country, but it would cost your 45% in your current country, then why not switch? There's nothing wrong with that. You're still paying your share under the social contract.
  - chefkoch 6y ago
    He already got the services all his life. Or do you think he could have started his company without education, infrastructure and security?
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - giantg2 6y ago
      You're assuming his education was publically funded - it might not have been. Can you say that he required the infrastructure or security to be successful? So you're saying that immigration/emigration should be illegal? I believe people should be able to move if they want to if they follow the process. It's important that people can live under a government that they support and believe to be the best one for them. It sounds like he has been paying his taxes all these years. So he has been contributing his fair share. Don't forget, him leaving means one fewer person for the government to provide services for. Knowing that healthcare costs increase as one gets older, this could be a large amount if healthcare is something his taxes cover. Honestly, the logic that he owes society money for the past services is pretty convoluted. The government isn't keeping a tab of what people owe if they ever make more money. When then, would someone have paid their dues to society to earn the freedom to move? The people currently making money are paying current taxes. Are the kids in school paying taxes? No, it's the property owners, some of whom might not even have kids. Tax schemes are designed to collect the amount that society needs as an aggregate. They try to be logical or socially acceptable in how they are collected. Society has not implemented a tax scheme saying you owe more for previous services because your income went up. They could, but they haven't.
aetherane 6y ago
That is $300 per person, which is a small fraction of the overall budget.
- giantg2 6y ago
  It can still make a difference in people's lives, especially to the poorest people.

Denniz 6y ago

I once made that decision, to move away to another city for 4 years. So can definitely agree that it is one of the best experiences to move away, at least once. On the other hand not sure if I would be ready to settle down for example in Zurich. Also, governments lookout for you. So basically if you start a business in my country and are then not satisfied, it becomes much more difficult to move away. You will have to pay a tax on the liquidation value of your company. Actually I never dealt with this stuff and was surprised about all the laws around this topic. "don't do anything just for money if you can help it -- and you usually can." Can't agree more. Been always my mindset as well. It changed a bit to be honest as I'm thinking about paying multiple millions in taxes that can be avoided just by moving to another city. Especially since the Government actually wasn't able to provide a good and fair regulatory framework. So there is a non-zero risk that they could kill the company.

david927 6y ago
It's funny that you chose Zurich for your example. It's a city I've lived in for many years and I think I can honestly say it's one of the great cities in the world. Safe, clean, and gorgeous. The language is really hard to learn, even if you know German, and almost impossible to sound like a local. It's also almost impossible to make friends except for expats here and there. So you're always an outsider in a town where they really don't care for outsiders. Otherwise, it's lovely. Someone else said it well: spend several months checking out any potential candidate location. Talk to expats. You'll get a really good idea of what it's like to live there.
- Denniz 6y ago
  It was just most convenient choice. Good airport connection and as you said it's rating is quite high. Guess the language would be the most annoying thing. Other choices would be Malta or Cyprus regarding taxes, but they are far away and I think the cultural match would be in Swiss higher.
  - david927 6y ago
    If you like mountains, snow, skiing and hiking: do Zurich. If you like beaches, heat, and small French towns: do Monaco. (IMO)