6 ms·

Why is that? Do you not believe in whistle blower protections or do you think that Snowden lied?

thelastwave 6y ago
How is Levandowski a whistle blower?
lastofthemojito 6y ago
Snowden overdid it. He found illegal behavior in a spy agency, but he also exposed legitimate activity. Sure, NSA was spying on Angela Merkel and other allies. You might agree with Henry Stimson, that "Gentlemen do not read each other's mail", but the reality is that countries spy on one another. Snowden might deserve whistleblower protection for some of his revelations, but not all of them.
- staunch 6y ago
  The blame for what he was forced to do belongs with the officials that were violating the constitution. They should be exiled for failing to uphold their oaths. Instead, Snowden is in exile. Snowden was just the first honorable American to come across the information and he did his best to expose it safely, by giving it to journalists to release, after consulting with the government. We can't expect whistle blowers to do a perfect job. There will always be some mistakes. As long as they act in good faith and reasonably, they should be protected.
  - lastofthemojito 6y ago
    > As long as they act in good faith and reasonably, they should be protected. I agree 100%.
    - fleshdaddy 6y ago
      You realize Snowden didn’t just dump all of these documents on a torrent site right? Given that he’s not a professional journalist and was risking his freedom he grabbed what he could and took it to reputable journalists to do the work of ensuring the leak doesn’t endanger others without a good reason. What else do you expect him to do? If he’d gone to a superior he’d be rotting in jail and we would have no evidence of mass surveillance in this country.
      - 2OEH8eoCRo0 6y ago
        >If he’d gone to a superior he’d be rotting in jail and we would have no evidence of mass surveillance in this country. Everyone says this but it's pure conjecture. We don't know what would have happened and now we never will.
        neilparikh 6y ago
        There are known cases of people trying to raise concerns through the correct channels and still facing retaliation. For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_A._Drake https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_A._Drake
        2OEH8eoCRo0 6y ago
        Okay? And people raise concerns that are taken seriously and do not face retaliation.
  - mlazos 6y ago
    HN loves Snowden so much it makes no sense to me. He could’ve gone to the Senate/House intelligence committees, and not been in trouble. Worst case nothing would’ve gotten done, but since they were lied to, I don’t think he would’ve been ignored.
    - dgellow 6y ago
      You don’t remember the NSA director lying under oath in front of the Congress about the exact crimes Snowden revealed?
      - mlazos 6y ago
        Yes that’s what I’m talking about when I said the committees were lied to. I’m sure they would’ve been interested to hear from someone working at the lower levels that the NSA director lied.
        adolph 6y ago
        The absence of prosecution or any act of accountability in response to that allegation might lead one to believe that there was never any interest in hearing from the “lower levels.” (Or that the allegations were not true.) What makes you “sure” of the opposite? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Clapper https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Clapper
    - ganoushoreilly 6y ago
      They also leave out the fact that he had been reprimanded for his actions numerous times, to include being removed from roles and duties because of his negative actions. The fact that he moved from the CIA back to an NSA supported role without this being disclosed is ridiculous in of itself. Edward had a childish reaction to release documents that had nothing to do with Xkeyscore (of which the media claim as the reason for his release), particularly those of Tailored Access Operations [TAO]. This was the action of a petulant individual lashing out at the system however he felt he could. Don't let it be ignored that he was specifically working in a capacity supporting operations in China.. then fled there before moving on to Russia. No one talks about or acknowledges that Edward was in a support role and not an "Operator" at the agency either. He was pissed because he applied twice and was denied, in part due to his horrible support on operation plans. He wanted to act out and damage the NSA and their mission. The hero worship of Snowden is deplorable. I only wish the american public had a real understanding and grasp of what goes on to keep their "bubble" safe and sound. Edwards actions have had an outsized impact and unfortunately it won't be mad public in a nonclassified space for many years to come, because of further operational impacts. He was 100% a traitor.
- adolph 6y ago
  Sir William Blackstone, in his Commentaries on the Laws of England, 9th ed., book 4, chapter 27, p. 358 (1783, reprinted 1978), says, “For the law holds, that it is better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer.” Likewise could it not be said that it is better that many legitimate programs go exposed to expose the blatantly lawless mass surveillance of USA Persons? https://www.bartleby.com/73/953.html https://www.bartleby.com/73/953.html
2OEH8eoCRo0 6y ago
I believe that once you leave the country with classified material then all bets are off.

How is Levandowski a whistle blower?

Snowden overdid it. He found illegal behavior in a spy agency, but he also exposed legitimate activity. Sure, NSA was spying on Angela Merkel and other allies. You might agree with Henry Stimson, that "Gentlemen do not read each other's mail", but the reality is that countries spy on one another. Snowden might deserve whistleblower protection for some of his revelations, but not all of them.

staunch 6y ago
The blame for what he was forced to do belongs with the officials that were violating the constitution. They should be exiled for failing to uphold their oaths. Instead, Snowden is in exile. Snowden was just the first honorable American to come across the information and he did his best to expose it safely, by giving it to journalists to release, after consulting with the government. We can't expect whistle blowers to do a perfect job. There will always be some mistakes. As long as they act in good faith and reasonably, they should be protected.
- lastofthemojito 6y ago
  > As long as they act in good faith and reasonably, they should be protected. I agree 100%.
  - fleshdaddy 6y ago
    You realize Snowden didn’t just dump all of these documents on a torrent site right? Given that he’s not a professional journalist and was risking his freedom he grabbed what he could and took it to reputable journalists to do the work of ensuring the leak doesn’t endanger others without a good reason. What else do you expect him to do? If he’d gone to a superior he’d be rotting in jail and we would have no evidence of mass surveillance in this country.
    - 2OEH8eoCRo0 6y ago
      >If he’d gone to a superior he’d be rotting in jail and we would have no evidence of mass surveillance in this country. Everyone says this but it's pure conjecture. We don't know what would have happened and now we never will.
      - neilparikh 6y ago
        There are known cases of people trying to raise concerns through the correct channels and still facing retaliation. For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_A._Drake https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_A._Drake
        2OEH8eoCRo0 6y ago
        Okay? And people raise concerns that are taken seriously and do not face retaliation.
- mlazos 6y ago
  HN loves Snowden so much it makes no sense to me. He could’ve gone to the Senate/House intelligence committees, and not been in trouble. Worst case nothing would’ve gotten done, but since they were lied to, I don’t think he would’ve been ignored.
  - dgellow 6y ago
    You don’t remember the NSA director lying under oath in front of the Congress about the exact crimes Snowden revealed?
    - mlazos 6y ago
      Yes that’s what I’m talking about when I said the committees were lied to. I’m sure they would’ve been interested to hear from someone working at the lower levels that the NSA director lied.
      - adolph 6y ago
        The absence of prosecution or any act of accountability in response to that allegation might lead one to believe that there was never any interest in hearing from the “lower levels.” (Or that the allegations were not true.) What makes you “sure” of the opposite? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Clapper https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Clapper
  - ganoushoreilly 6y ago
    They also leave out the fact that he had been reprimanded for his actions numerous times, to include being removed from roles and duties because of his negative actions. The fact that he moved from the CIA back to an NSA supported role without this being disclosed is ridiculous in of itself. Edward had a childish reaction to release documents that had nothing to do with Xkeyscore (of which the media claim as the reason for his release), particularly those of Tailored Access Operations [TAO]. This was the action of a petulant individual lashing out at the system however he felt he could. Don't let it be ignored that he was specifically working in a capacity supporting operations in China.. then fled there before moving on to Russia. No one talks about or acknowledges that Edward was in a support role and not an "Operator" at the agency either. He was pissed because he applied twice and was denied, in part due to his horrible support on operation plans. He wanted to act out and damage the NSA and their mission. The hero worship of Snowden is deplorable. I only wish the american public had a real understanding and grasp of what goes on to keep their "bubble" safe and sound. Edwards actions have had an outsized impact and unfortunately it won't be mad public in a nonclassified space for many years to come, because of further operational impacts. He was 100% a traitor.
adolph 6y ago
Sir William Blackstone, in his Commentaries on the Laws of England, 9th ed., book 4, chapter 27, p. 358 (1783, reprinted 1978), says, “For the law holds, that it is better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer.” Likewise could it not be said that it is better that many legitimate programs go exposed to expose the blatantly lawless mass surveillance of USA Persons? https://www.bartleby.com/73/953.html https://www.bartleby.com/73/953.html

2OEH8eoCRo0 6y ago

I believe that once you leave the country with classified material then all bets are off.