6 ms·

Buying your freedom is as old as prisons. E.g. I just saw someone post this book although the post disappeared (?): Pardongate: How Bill & Hillary Clinton and

Buying your freedom is as old as prisons. E.g. I just saw someone post this book although the post disappeared (?): Pardongate: How Bill & Hillary Clinton and Their Brothers Profited from Pardons

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
- smt88 6y ago
  Do you have a source on Reagan and Carter pardoning people who gave them money? The issue isn't Trump issuing a lot of pardons. It's the corrupt (though legal) influence market that is essentially rewarding him financially for doing it. It's really frustrating that criminal consequences are moot if you find a way to get this president's attention or loyalty.
a_bonobo 6y ago
I don't know, that book looks a bit dodgy - released 6-ish months ago, OK publisher, 6 reviews on Amazon, the co-author seems to be a long-time Clinton enemy (https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/bensmith/man-who-saw-trump-coming https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/bensmith/man-who-saw-tr...) The Wikipedia article is probably a better overview: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton_pardon_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton_pardon_controvers...
matthewdgreen 6y ago
My understanding is that there was a criminal investigation of Clinton's Marc Rich pardon that concluded without finding any evidence of criminality. I'm not raising this as a defense of his making that pardon, but rather, to point out that a President selling pardons is and has long been considered a serious crime. The Clinton precedent is a clear illustration. Saying "hey, some book alleges Clinton got paid for a pardon, therefore it's common practice" sounds nice, but ignores the fact that suspicion around Clinton's Marc Rich pardon triggered an extensive criminal investigation that concluded he did not, in fact, get paid for it.
- 0goel0 6y ago
  Meanwhile https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/17/us/politics/trump-pardons.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/17/us/politics/trump-pardons... "The brisk market for pardons reflects the access peddling that has defined Mr. Trump’s presidency as well as his unorthodox approach to exercising unchecked presidential clemency powers. Pardons and commutations are intended to show mercy to deserving recipients, but Mr. Trump has used many of them to reward personal or political allies."
  - TameAntelope 6y ago
    That's about buying access to Trump so people can make their case for a pardon, which is substantively different.
    - oji0hub 6y ago
      Person gives person B money. Person B gives person A a pardon. We can say that A paid for access, made a voluntary contribution, lightened their walled, lent out money that didn't have to be repaid, etc. In practice, these are just ways of phrasing "bribe" differently.
      - TameAntelope 6y ago
        That's not what the NYT is reporting, the NYT is reporting that Person A gives person B money, person B provides access for Person A to talk to Person C about giving Person A a pardon. The pardoner, Person C, does not get any money. That is an important distinction. I'm not saying Trump isn't accepting payments for pardons, I'm saying the NYT article linked above isn't reporting that. They're reporting on lobbying efforts, which don't appear to be illegal. People pay for the President's time quite frequently. What's interesting about this story is that the folks with access are trying directly to solicit from convicts. I think that's fairly new or at least newsworthy.
        oji0hub 6y ago

Buying your freedom is as old as prisons. E.g. I just saw someone post this book although the post disappeared (?): Pardongate: How Bill & Hillary Clinton and Their Brothers Profited from Pardons

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

smt88 6y ago
Do you have a source on Reagan and Carter pardoning people who gave them money? The issue isn't Trump issuing a lot of pardons. It's the corrupt (though legal) influence market that is essentially rewarding him financially for doing it. It's really frustrating that criminal consequences are moot if you find a way to get this president's attention or loyalty.

a_bonobo 6y ago

I don't know, that book looks a bit dodgy - released 6-ish months ago, OK publisher, 6 reviews on Amazon, the co-author seems to be a long-time Clinton enemy (https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/bensmith/man-who-saw-trump-coming https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/bensmith/man-who-saw-tr...) The Wikipedia article is probably a better overview: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton_pardon_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton_pardon_controvers...

matthewdgreen 6y ago

My understanding is that there was a criminal investigation of Clinton's Marc Rich pardon that concluded without finding any evidence of criminality. I'm not raising this as a defense of his making that pardon, but rather, to point out that a President selling pardons is and has long been considered a serious crime. The Clinton precedent is a clear illustration. Saying "hey, some book alleges Clinton got paid for a pardon, therefore it's common practice" sounds nice, but ignores the fact that suspicion around Clinton's Marc Rich pardon triggered an extensive criminal investigation that concluded he did not, in fact, get paid for it.

0goel0 6y ago
Meanwhile https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/17/us/politics/trump-pardons.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/17/us/politics/trump-pardons... "The brisk market for pardons reflects the access peddling that has defined Mr. Trump’s presidency as well as his unorthodox approach to exercising unchecked presidential clemency powers. Pardons and commutations are intended to show mercy to deserving recipients, but Mr. Trump has used many of them to reward personal or political allies."
- TameAntelope 6y ago
  That's about buying access to Trump so people can make their case for a pardon, which is substantively different.
  - oji0hub 6y ago
    Person gives person B money. Person B gives person A a pardon. We can say that A paid for access, made a voluntary contribution, lightened their walled, lent out money that didn't have to be repaid, etc. In practice, these are just ways of phrasing "bribe" differently.
    - TameAntelope 6y ago
      That's not what the NYT is reporting, the NYT is reporting that Person A gives person B money, person B provides access for Person A to talk to Person C about giving Person A a pardon. The pardoner, Person C, does not get any money. That is an important distinction. I'm not saying Trump isn't accepting payments for pardons, I'm saying the NYT article linked above isn't reporting that. They're reporting on lobbying efforts, which don't appear to be illegal. People pay for the President's time quite frequently. What's interesting about this story is that the folks with access are trying directly to solicit from convicts. I think that's fairly new or at least newsworthy.
      - oji0hub 6y ago