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No this is a move to protect market share and buy time their processors with the current Intel node are not competitive this way they are able to compete with A

No this is a move to protect market share and buy time their processors with the current Intel node are not competitive this way they are able to compete with AMD as well as restrict AMD supply. They will be able to hold market share with this till their own next generation fab is fully functional.

usrusr 6y ago
Sure, assuming that their in-house manufacturing is more expensive than buying externally (quite likely, considering that it was grown for decades more on USPs than on pricing). I wonder how much the "cooperate to learn" effect has been part of the decision. You surely won't get outright trade secrets this way or technological details, but valuable insights in how they think, how they "do things on a high level"
PartiallyTyped 6y ago
They'd have to also compete with Apple, NVDA and AMD for those wafers. TSM is looking like a great investing opportunity.
- culopatin 6y ago
  It’s been going up since March. It was around 55 now at 136. Really nice returns.
- bluGill 6y ago
  Buy the rumor, sell the news. TSM was a great opportunity, is it still? I don't know the answer, but it is an important warning to keep in mind when making decisions.
  - andrewmcwatters 6y ago
    A resounding "no." The last time TSM was near fair value was mid-2020.
    - PartiallyTyped 6y ago
      Why so? They have practically a monopoly as there is nobody that can actually compete, Samsung just isn't there, same for INTC's fabs, obviously. In addition, more and more AI/ML accelerator startups show up with even more need for wafers and ASML has 2 year old orders on the backlog (half of their EUV's machines last year went just to TSMC).
      - bluGill 6y ago
        We never know when intel or Samsung will catch up, or even get ahead. They have a monopoly today, but a little bit of luck on either part and that is gone...
monopoledance 6y ago
> as well as restrict AMD supply Clearly evidence of the "free market" working on human prosperity. Oh, wait, no it's the opposite. Innovation killed over a monopoly's power. Cool, cool, cool. This sort of anti-competitive behavior should be illegal. How is it okay to just clog your competitors supply line, when they got the better tech you just can't up?
- jjoonathan 6y ago
  When it comes to fab, AMD didn't beat intel, they gave up and went with TSMC. Now they have to compete with TSMC's other customers, including Intel, for access to the kingmaking process. That's not foul play, it's the bed they made, and now they get/have to lie in it.
  - xattt 6y ago
    I thought AMD spun off their own fabs into Global Foundries.
    - jjoonathan 6y ago
      ...which they dropped like a used tissue, yes. That was the entire point of the exercise.
      - lizknope 6y ago
        The current high end AMD parts are multi chip modules. The CPU dies are made at TSMC in 7nm but the IO dies that glue multiple CPU dies together is made in the Global Foundries 14nm process. GF has basically given up on 10nm and smaller nodes.
        CameronNemo 6y ago
        GF has given up on research and pioneering smaller nodes. Their current process is based on tech they licensed from Samsung. I would not be surprised if they licensed another process from TSMC or Samsung in the future.
dkjaudyeqooe 6y ago
That's not how it works. If you want volume from TSMC you make a big order, you sign a contract, and then put down a billion dollars or two and TSMC will build you a nice new fab for your needs. That's more or less how it works. TSMC doesn't allow itself to be in a position to have to screw one customer for another customer. It would destroy the trust that customers need to put the survival of their business in TSMC's hands.

usrusr 6y ago

Sure, assuming that their in-house manufacturing is more expensive than buying externally (quite likely, considering that it was grown for decades more on USPs than on pricing). I wonder how much the "cooperate to learn" effect has been part of the decision. You surely won't get outright trade secrets this way or technological details, but valuable insights in how they think, how they "do things on a high level"

PartiallyTyped 6y ago

They'd have to also compete with Apple, NVDA and AMD for those wafers. TSM is looking like a great investing opportunity.

culopatin 6y ago
It’s been going up since March. It was around 55 now at 136. Really nice returns.
bluGill 6y ago
Buy the rumor, sell the news. TSM was a great opportunity, is it still? I don't know the answer, but it is an important warning to keep in mind when making decisions.
- andrewmcwatters 6y ago
  A resounding "no." The last time TSM was near fair value was mid-2020.
  - PartiallyTyped 6y ago
    Why so? They have practically a monopoly as there is nobody that can actually compete, Samsung just isn't there, same for INTC's fabs, obviously. In addition, more and more AI/ML accelerator startups show up with even more need for wafers and ASML has 2 year old orders on the backlog (half of their EUV's machines last year went just to TSMC).
    - bluGill 6y ago
      We never know when intel or Samsung will catch up, or even get ahead. They have a monopoly today, but a little bit of luck on either part and that is gone...

monopoledance 6y ago

> as well as restrict AMD supply Clearly evidence of the "free market" working on human prosperity. Oh, wait, no it's the opposite. Innovation killed over a monopoly's power. Cool, cool, cool. This sort of anti-competitive behavior should be illegal. How is it okay to just clog your competitors supply line, when they got the better tech you just can't up?

jjoonathan 6y ago
When it comes to fab, AMD didn't beat intel, they gave up and went with TSMC. Now they have to compete with TSMC's other customers, including Intel, for access to the kingmaking process. That's not foul play, it's the bed they made, and now they get/have to lie in it.
- xattt 6y ago
  I thought AMD spun off their own fabs into Global Foundries.
  - jjoonathan 6y ago
    ...which they dropped like a used tissue, yes. That was the entire point of the exercise.
    - lizknope 6y ago
      The current high end AMD parts are multi chip modules. The CPU dies are made at TSMC in 7nm but the IO dies that glue multiple CPU dies together is made in the Global Foundries 14nm process. GF has basically given up on 10nm and smaller nodes.
      - CameronNemo 6y ago
        GF has given up on research and pioneering smaller nodes. Their current process is based on tech they licensed from Samsung. I would not be surprised if they licensed another process from TSMC or Samsung in the future.

dkjaudyeqooe 6y ago

That's not how it works. If you want volume from TSMC you make a big order, you sign a contract, and then put down a billion dollars or two and TSMC will build you a nice new fab for your needs. That's more or less how it works. TSMC doesn't allow itself to be in a position to have to screw one customer for another customer. It would destroy the trust that customers need to put the survival of their business in TSMC's hands.