5 ms·

For a post-industrial economy, it's marketing all the way down, for the "fast-growing" segments. Tesla and Apple valuations come to mind. Good marketing goes ab

For a post-industrial economy, it's marketing all the way down, for the "fast-growing" segments. Tesla and Apple valuations come to mind. Good marketing goes above the activities you list, creating a sub-culture pushing the hype for the brand instead. VCs are not there, and probably never will be, but they dream of it, as some of their self-aggrandizing visionary guru posturing can attest.

zapita 6y ago
Isn’t YC an example of VC successfully creating such a “subculture pushing the hype for the brand”? After all, we are having this conversation on their website...
- Nowado 6y ago
  ALL the way down. And up.
ForHackernews 6y ago
It's kind of hard for me to claim Apple is all marketing hype when they've just released their own new silicon that is by all accounts outstanding. That's not marketing, that's real engineering. (Unless they didn't actually do that work and just white-labelled some chips from another firm)
- flyinglizard 6y ago
  Apple just mastered the cycle, making it self reinforce at every tick. At their DNA they are a lifestyle company.
  - NotPavlovsDog 6y ago
    I miss Steve Wozniak values at apple. "We put out manuals that had just hundreds of pages of listings of code, descriptions of circuits, examples of boards that you would plug in—so that anyone could look at this and say, “Now I know how I would do my own.” They could type in the programs on their own Apple II and then see “that’s how that works” instantly, and know how to write their own programs. Running cards was the most important thing. All these companies started up making cards that you could plug into your Apple II and write a little software (mostly games at first) on cassette tapes. You’d go to the store and they’d just have all this stuff that you could buy to enhance the Apple II. So one of our big keys to success was that we were very open. There’s a big world out there for other people to come and join us." Steve Wozniak in "Founders at Work" by Jessica Livingston.
    - flyinglizard 6y ago
      This approach reincarnated in their App Store. It’s full of documents and APIs which allow anyone to make their device do anything.
      - ForHackernews 6y ago
        > do anything Anything that Apple approves of allowing you to do.
      - NotPavlovsDog 6y ago
        > allow anyone to make their device do anything. There are ample sources, and lawsuits, disagreeing with your argument. "Josh Begley, a graduate student at New York University, developed Drones+ to provide up-to-date information on strikes, using reports collated by the London-based Bureau of Investigative Journalism – an organisation that tracks the use of unmanned CIA aircrafts. But repeated attempts to get Apple to offer the software at its app store have been fruitless. At first, Begley was informed that the program – which he hoped would raise awareness of the growing death toll from drone strikes – was "not useful" enough and did not appeal to a "broad enough audience". The company position has since shifted, but only in the reasoning behind its refusal to stock Drones+. In the latest rejection email, Apple reportedly informed him: "We found that your app contains content that many audiences would find objectionable, which is not in compliance with the app store review guidelines."" https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/08/31/the-problem-with-apples-closed-apps-universe/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/08/31/the-prob... And let's not forget the anti-repair, closed hardware. [1] Right-to-Repair Groups Don't Buy Apple’s Answers to Congress https://www.wired.com/story/right-to-repair-apple-answers-congress/ https://www.wired.com/story/right-to-repair-apple-answers-co... [2] "Apple even created a special screw specifically to make it hard to repair the iPhone". https://www.ifixit.com/Right-to-Repair/Intro https://www.ifixit.com/Right-to-Repair/Intro
    - mrunkel 6y ago
      I too miss those days when you could look at a schematic for an entire computer and understand it. I too miss the days when the computer was something you could just hack around on for hours, plug various things in and make a business out of it. Unfortunately we're a long way away from those days. That Apple ][ was never going to get the market penetration of an iPhone or an iPad. And that Market is what Apple is chasing today and where their focus is. The market that the Apple ][ played in is basically the same as the one for the Raspberry Pi today. If you're looking for that experience, that's where you'll find it. Apple sells products with the edges filed off (both literally and metaphorically) for the masses.
- vslira 6y ago
  Apple is a hard tech engineering company disguising as a branding company so that everyone that tries to compete with them follow the wrong lead and invest billions of dollars trying to sell unimpressive hardware at high margins and fail /j
- ovi256 6y ago
  > just white-labelled some chips from another firm That's trivially verified by watching which of their competitors is licensing just as good custom silicon from the same firm, achieving similar performance/Wh. And it's nobody AFAIK.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- petra 6y ago
  The best processor in the world can be a wonderful marketing tool.
  - mox1 6y ago
    Well from that point of view "Everything is Marketing"...perhaps that isn't wrong.

zapita 6y ago

Isn’t YC an example of VC successfully creating such a “subculture pushing the hype for the brand”? After all, we are having this conversation on their website...

Nowado 6y ago
ALL the way down. And up.

ForHackernews 6y ago

It's kind of hard for me to claim Apple is all marketing hype when they've just released their own new silicon that is by all accounts outstanding. That's not marketing, that's real engineering. (Unless they didn't actually do that work and just white-labelled some chips from another firm)

flyinglizard 6y ago
Apple just mastered the cycle, making it self reinforce at every tick. At their DNA they are a lifestyle company.
- NotPavlovsDog 6y ago
  I miss Steve Wozniak values at apple. "We put out manuals that had just hundreds of pages of listings of code, descriptions of circuits, examples of boards that you would plug in—so that anyone could look at this and say, “Now I know how I would do my own.” They could type in the programs on their own Apple II and then see “that’s how that works” instantly, and know how to write their own programs. Running cards was the most important thing. All these companies started up making cards that you could plug into your Apple II and write a little software (mostly games at first) on cassette tapes. You’d go to the store and they’d just have all this stuff that you could buy to enhance the Apple II. So one of our big keys to success was that we were very open. There’s a big world out there for other people to come and join us." Steve Wozniak in "Founders at Work" by Jessica Livingston.
  - flyinglizard 6y ago
    This approach reincarnated in their App Store. It’s full of documents and APIs which allow anyone to make their device do anything.
    - ForHackernews 6y ago
      > do anything Anything that Apple approves of allowing you to do.
    - NotPavlovsDog 6y ago
      > allow anyone to make their device do anything. There are ample sources, and lawsuits, disagreeing with your argument. "Josh Begley, a graduate student at New York University, developed Drones+ to provide up-to-date information on strikes, using reports collated by the London-based Bureau of Investigative Journalism – an organisation that tracks the use of unmanned CIA aircrafts. But repeated attempts to get Apple to offer the software at its app store have been fruitless. At first, Begley was informed that the program – which he hoped would raise awareness of the growing death toll from drone strikes – was "not useful" enough and did not appeal to a "broad enough audience". The company position has since shifted, but only in the reasoning behind its refusal to stock Drones+. In the latest rejection email, Apple reportedly informed him: "We found that your app contains content that many audiences would find objectionable, which is not in compliance with the app store review guidelines."" https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/08/31/the-problem-with-apples-closed-apps-universe/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/08/31/the-prob... And let's not forget the anti-repair, closed hardware. [1] Right-to-Repair Groups Don't Buy Apple’s Answers to Congress https://www.wired.com/story/right-to-repair-apple-answers-congress/ https://www.wired.com/story/right-to-repair-apple-answers-co... [2] "Apple even created a special screw specifically to make it hard to repair the iPhone". https://www.ifixit.com/Right-to-Repair/Intro https://www.ifixit.com/Right-to-Repair/Intro
  - mrunkel 6y ago
    I too miss those days when you could look at a schematic for an entire computer and understand it. I too miss the days when the computer was something you could just hack around on for hours, plug various things in and make a business out of it. Unfortunately we're a long way away from those days. That Apple ][ was never going to get the market penetration of an iPhone or an iPad. And that Market is what Apple is chasing today and where their focus is. The market that the Apple ][ played in is basically the same as the one for the Raspberry Pi today. If you're looking for that experience, that's where you'll find it. Apple sells products with the edges filed off (both literally and metaphorically) for the masses.
vslira 6y ago
Apple is a hard tech engineering company disguising as a branding company so that everyone that tries to compete with them follow the wrong lead and invest billions of dollars trying to sell unimpressive hardware at high margins and fail /j
ovi256 6y ago
> just white-labelled some chips from another firm That's trivially verified by watching which of their competitors is licensing just as good custom silicon from the same firm, achieving similar performance/Wh. And it's nobody AFAIK.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
petra 6y ago
The best processor in the world can be a wonderful marketing tool.
- mox1 6y ago
  Well from that point of view "Everything is Marketing"...perhaps that isn't wrong.