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There are a couple of paradigm shifts needed. In mainland China, people value outcome legitimacy rather than procedural legitimacy and freedom of speech. In ot

There are a couple of paradigm shifts needed. In mainland China, people value outcome legitimacy rather than procedural legitimacy and freedom of speech. In other words: they care whether the government actually does a good job, rather than whether the procedure through which the government was selected is correct, or whether they could criticize Xi. How would the government get feedback then if people aren't allowed to criticize? As I said before: one can submit feedback about policy. Just don't go around and insult people. The government monitors social media as well for grievances. At the same time they censor social media to prevent mass unrest, but they take grievances seriously and works to solve them. Whereas the west has freedom of speech as a core value, mainland Chinese value unity, face, action over talk and freedom from poverty. To them, it's much more important to be able to have a good economic life, than freedom of speech. After all, 2 generations ago the Chinese were dirt-poor. When I was born, food rationing still existed! As Kishore Mahbubani, ex-UN Security Council head and ex-Singapore diplomat, said: the CCP is in actuality more like a Chinese Civilization Party. Their goal is to advance the interests of Chinese civilization, not to spread communism world-wide. China is not facist. Facism means that society is deliberately split up in classes (e.g. races), with one class being seen as inherently superior to other "untermenschen". This is not China. There's no notion that Han is better than Yao, or whatever. Official government policy is to give ethnic minorities preferential treatment, such as easier access to university. Or maybe you're using "facism" as a generic word for something you don't like? This is an actual question, not a diss. As for hypersonic weapons: yes escalating weaponry is not good. But on the other hand, the US is not blameless in this: "The US Has No Place in the South China Sea Dispute" https://original.antiwar.com/dave_decamp/2020/07/19/the-us-has-no-place-in-the-south-china-sea-dispute/ https://original.antiwar.com/dave_decamp/2020/07/19/the-us-h... The US isn't supposed to be sailing warships around in the South China Sea in the first place. How about we all calm down and de-escalate at the same time, rather than trying to demonize a single party? > When we have no other advantage, what then? Do we implode? What made America and the west great? It's because of the great many talented individuals, focus on science and technology, investment in education, research and development. Keep doing that. We've been dropping that ball lately, becoming complacent. The west can easily compete with China toe-to-toe if only we get our shit together. China is not interested in exporting its governance model. It has never done that. There's no evidence it ever will do that. Why should they? It's not in their interest to change others' governance model. China's rise as a superpower is easily the most peaceful one in human history. China is not an enemy, not a threat. When China and the west come together, the whole world wins.

baybal2 6y ago
> The government monitors social media as well for grievances. I personally know people whose parents were stupid enough to go for such "anonymous grievance boxes" just to get a knock on the door from district committee enforcers the next day. You don't seem to know anything about modern China if you don't even know that. > After all, 2 generations ago the Chinese were dirt-poor. When I was born, food rationing still existed! > mainland Chinese value unity, face, action over talk and freedom from poverty If Beijing ever cared about freedom from poverty, China wouldn't be so poor as a result of its actions. And I am not talking about Mao era here, but very much modern day. > China is not interested in exporting its governance model. It has never done that. > It's not in their interest to change others' governance model. Then, why it is doing it? Beijing sent armed Maoists to Naxalite insurgency, Indonesian Maoist insurgency, Malaysian Maoist insurgency, Singapore coup attempt, North Korea, Nepal, Burma, Laos, Campuchia, Sri Lanka, and ~10 African countries? A solid record by any measure.
- dang 6y ago
  Please don't cross into nationalistic flamewar. I respect and am grateful for how much your HN comments have improved over the years, in terms of sticking to the intended use of the site. And I'm aware that you know a lot about these topics. But your posts in this thread are sliding back into the sort of pattern we're trying to avoid here. Please go the other way. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- FooBarWidget 6y ago
  > I personally know people whose parents were stupid enough to go for such "anonymous grievance boxes" just to get a knock on the door from district committee enforcers the next day. Okay, do tell. I'm being genuine here. If those boxes are anonymous, why do they know who sent it? What were the grievances? Why would they get in trouble? What did the district committee enforces actually do? How long ago was this? > If Beijing ever cared about freedom from poverty, China wouldn't be so poor as a result of its actions. > Then, why it is doing it? That's a long list, let me go into a few. North Korea is not an example of China exporting its governance model. If North Korea actually follows China's governance model it would be far more open than it is today. What happened is that during the Vietnam war, China allied with North Korea to prevent the Americans from setting up a base at the Chinese border. That's not "exporting governance model". Naxalite: where's the evidence that this insurgency is supported by China. Just because they're Maoist doesn't mean China did this. What do African countries have to do with this? Are you talking about this "debt trap" thing? China doesn't want African countries to default. China has even provided debt relief this year, without asking for anything in return. China hasn't fired a bullet across its borders for over 30 years. That's more than I can say about the current hegemon.

baybal2 6y ago

> The government monitors social media as well for grievances. I personally know people whose parents were stupid enough to go for such "anonymous grievance boxes" just to get a knock on the door from district committee enforcers the next day. You don't seem to know anything about modern China if you don't even know that. > After all, 2 generations ago the Chinese were dirt-poor. When I was born, food rationing still existed! > mainland Chinese value unity, face, action over talk and freedom from poverty If Beijing ever cared about freedom from poverty, China wouldn't be so poor as a result of its actions. And I am not talking about Mao era here, but very much modern day. > China is not interested in exporting its governance model. It has never done that. > It's not in their interest to change others' governance model. Then, why it is doing it? Beijing sent armed Maoists to Naxalite insurgency, Indonesian Maoist insurgency, Malaysian Maoist insurgency, Singapore coup attempt, North Korea, Nepal, Burma, Laos, Campuchia, Sri Lanka, and ~10 African countries? A solid record by any measure.

dang 6y ago
Please don't cross into nationalistic flamewar. I respect and am grateful for how much your HN comments have improved over the years, in terms of sticking to the intended use of the site. And I'm aware that you know a lot about these topics. But your posts in this thread are sliding back into the sort of pattern we're trying to avoid here. Please go the other way. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
FooBarWidget 6y ago
> I personally know people whose parents were stupid enough to go for such "anonymous grievance boxes" just to get a knock on the door from district committee enforcers the next day. Okay, do tell. I'm being genuine here. If those boxes are anonymous, why do they know who sent it? What were the grievances? Why would they get in trouble? What did the district committee enforces actually do? How long ago was this? > If Beijing ever cared about freedom from poverty, China wouldn't be so poor as a result of its actions. > Then, why it is doing it? That's a long list, let me go into a few. North Korea is not an example of China exporting its governance model. If North Korea actually follows China's governance model it would be far more open than it is today. What happened is that during the Vietnam war, China allied with North Korea to prevent the Americans from setting up a base at the Chinese border. That's not "exporting governance model". Naxalite: where's the evidence that this insurgency is supported by China. Just because they're Maoist doesn't mean China did this. What do African countries have to do with this? Are you talking about this "debt trap" thing? China doesn't want African countries to default. China has even provided debt relief this year, without asking for anything in return. China hasn't fired a bullet across its borders for over 30 years. That's more than I can say about the current hegemon.