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I assume the GP was referring to wasm running on top of graal, not graal running on top of wasm. I don't think graal atop wasm would be a particularly interest

I assume the GP was referring to wasm running on top of graal, not graal running on top of wasm. I don't think graal atop wasm would be a particularly interesting use case. Wasm purports to be a portable, secure, performant application runtime. Graal purports to be a portable, secure , performant application runtime. The latter, however, has had many more engineer-hours thrown at its implementation, and is thus both more heavyweight (so it needs all the resources it can get) and more performant (so it makes sense to use it as the backing runtime).

pawelmurias 6y ago
Wasm is build as an efficient target for C/C++ like languages. It's mostly a striped down portable CPU intruction set. Graal/Truffle is intended to be an efficient target for everything. It's a toolbox of crazy magic for building your own JIT. There are not equivalent.
- johnnycerberus 6y ago
  Indeed, WASM will probably be a niche compared to what GraalVM offers.
  - The_rationalist 6y ago
    But because of harmful politics graalvm isn't going to be included in browsers anytime soon
    - johnnycerberus 6y ago
      What if somebody will build a GraalVM-based browser? That would be something. Anyway, W3C recommends WebAssembly but does not impose it. It is not too late in the game because WASM doesn't even have DOM access, yet. And also people are still using browsers that are not WASM-ready. How many people actually compile their libraries to WASM today? Aside to early adopters scattered around Rust and Emscripten.
      - The_rationalist 6y ago
        I don't see which actor in the industry (outside of browser makers) has the human resources to make such an experiment. Mozilla were the one lobbying for wasm... and chromium has abandoned pnacl because of them. The only hope might be microsoft. Oracle could do it in theory but I don't expect them to do it anytime soon.

pawelmurias 6y ago

Wasm is build as an efficient target for C/C++ like languages. It's mostly a striped down portable CPU intruction set. Graal/Truffle is intended to be an efficient target for everything. It's a toolbox of crazy magic for building your own JIT. There are not equivalent.

johnnycerberus 6y ago
Indeed, WASM will probably be a niche compared to what GraalVM offers.
- The_rationalist 6y ago
  But because of harmful politics graalvm isn't going to be included in browsers anytime soon
  - johnnycerberus 6y ago
    What if somebody will build a GraalVM-based browser? That would be something. Anyway, W3C recommends WebAssembly but does not impose it. It is not too late in the game because WASM doesn't even have DOM access, yet. And also people are still using browsers that are not WASM-ready. How many people actually compile their libraries to WASM today? Aside to early adopters scattered around Rust and Emscripten.
    - The_rationalist 6y ago
      I don't see which actor in the industry (outside of browser makers) has the human resources to make such an experiment. Mozilla were the one lobbying for wasm... and chromium has abandoned pnacl because of them. The only hope might be microsoft. Oracle could do it in theory but I don't expect them to do it anytime soon.