4 ms·

Why so negative, a little bit of clemency even if people are guilty will do a great deal to help heal the nation. This list reads like an indictment of the just

by wrnr 6y ago

Why so negative, a little bit of clemency even if people are guilty will do a great deal to help heal the nation. This list reads like an indictment of the justice system, life sentences for non violent drug offences, yikes. I'm glad for everyone, welcome back.

avmich 6y ago
> will do a great deal to help heal the nation A counterpoint: Abraham Lincoln had some strong opinions about the events like on Jan. 6, and his opinions were not guided by an idea of "unity." Healing may involve some unpleasant medicine.
- wrnr 6y ago
  I'm guided by the principle for universal love and forgiveness, it is time to leave the past behind, who cares what a dead person would thinks about something he never experienced. You are afraid and grasping at an illusion to keep up the self image of the victim, a powerful image yes, wash the hate from your heart, open the chacra of fear to drain the pool of resentment and let the light enter your soul. I will pray for you my child and I want you to know that I love your for all that you are irregardless of what you did.
  - tsimionescu 6y ago
    Even in the kindest philosophies, forgiveness is conditioned on some kind of regret for the crime (if indeed a crime did happen). Almost none of the people on this list are repentant for their actions - if anything, many are defiant - and I see no reason to forgive them. It may be a kindness to them, but there is also a problem of kindness for their victims.
  - cycomanic 6y ago
    Healing can not happen without some form of holding the perpetrators to account. Otherwise, society has not shown that the behaviour was unacceptable and the perpetrators are not seeing any consequences for their actions. To give an example, hardly anyone would be able to forgive someone that has e.g. stolen your car, and continues to drive by your house with it and showing no remorse for taking it. It's also ironic that the demands for unity and forgiveness are now coming from a side who has made law&order a central part of their platform, in a country with one of the most broken judicial systems and one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.
GordonS 6y ago
I support a lot of these pardons for non-violent drug offences, mainly because the US justice system issues such needlessly long sentences, and the US penal system is so harsh. But AFAIK, Trump hasn't done anything to address these while in power, and given his usual rhetoric about "law and order" targeted at a very conservative audience, the cynic in me can't help but wonder if a lot of these pardons are to detract from or excuse the pardons for cronies.
- logicchains 6y ago
  >But AFAIK, Trump hasn't done anything to address these while in power https://www.npr.org/2018/12/17/676771335/how-trump-went-from-tough-on-crime-to-second-chance-for-felons https://www.npr.org/2018/12/17/676771335/how-trump-went-from...
  - GordonS 6y ago
    It's not very convincing: "Trump's endorsement of the Senate's First Step Act stands in stark contrast to some of the rhetoric he has employed while in office" "Trump, too, at times has argued that drug dealers are not punished enough" "He has even talked about wanting to utilize the death penalty against drug traffickers" (yikes!!!) And then there is the executive order that Trump made targetting BLM protesters, where damaging a federal building can lead to up to 10 years in prison, and he spraffed at length about coming down hard on them. Funnily enough, he wasn't saying anything like this about the Capitol Hill rioters... I think one of Trump's biggest flaws (if we put aside megalomania), is that he wants to be loved by everyone - I always got the impression he'd say anything to anyone if he thought it would get them on side, regardless of whether he actually believed it.

by wrnr 6y ago

avmich 6y ago

> will do a great deal to help heal the nation A counterpoint: Abraham Lincoln had some strong opinions about the events like on Jan. 6, and his opinions were not guided by an idea of "unity." Healing may involve some unpleasant medicine.

wrnr 6y ago
I'm guided by the principle for universal love and forgiveness, it is time to leave the past behind, who cares what a dead person would thinks about something he never experienced. You are afraid and grasping at an illusion to keep up the self image of the victim, a powerful image yes, wash the hate from your heart, open the chacra of fear to drain the pool of resentment and let the light enter your soul. I will pray for you my child and I want you to know that I love your for all that you are irregardless of what you did.
- tsimionescu 6y ago
  Even in the kindest philosophies, forgiveness is conditioned on some kind of regret for the crime (if indeed a crime did happen). Almost none of the people on this list are repentant for their actions - if anything, many are defiant - and I see no reason to forgive them. It may be a kindness to them, but there is also a problem of kindness for their victims.
- cycomanic 6y ago
  Healing can not happen without some form of holding the perpetrators to account. Otherwise, society has not shown that the behaviour was unacceptable and the perpetrators are not seeing any consequences for their actions. To give an example, hardly anyone would be able to forgive someone that has e.g. stolen your car, and continues to drive by your house with it and showing no remorse for taking it. It's also ironic that the demands for unity and forgiveness are now coming from a side who has made law&order a central part of their platform, in a country with one of the most broken judicial systems and one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.

GordonS 6y ago

I support a lot of these pardons for non-violent drug offences, mainly because the US justice system issues such needlessly long sentences, and the US penal system is so harsh. But AFAIK, Trump hasn't done anything to address these while in power, and given his usual rhetoric about "law and order" targeted at a very conservative audience, the cynic in me can't help but wonder if a lot of these pardons are to detract from or excuse the pardons for cronies.

logicchains 6y ago
>But AFAIK, Trump hasn't done anything to address these while in power https://www.npr.org/2018/12/17/676771335/how-trump-went-from-tough-on-crime-to-second-chance-for-felons https://www.npr.org/2018/12/17/676771335/how-trump-went-from...
- GordonS 6y ago
  It's not very convincing: "Trump's endorsement of the Senate's First Step Act stands in stark contrast to some of the rhetoric he has employed while in office" "Trump, too, at times has argued that drug dealers are not punished enough" "He has even talked about wanting to utilize the death penalty against drug traffickers" (yikes!!!) And then there is the executive order that Trump made targetting BLM protesters, where damaging a federal building can lead to up to 10 years in prison, and he spraffed at length about coming down hard on them. Funnily enough, he wasn't saying anything like this about the Capitol Hill rioters... I think one of Trump's biggest flaws (if we put aside megalomania), is that he wants to be loved by everyone - I always got the impression he'd say anything to anyone if he thought it would get them on side, regardless of whether he actually believed it.