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I read his comments, and have studied Chinese and China for years. While he took a pretty slight risk, (it seems) he only criticized other business owners and p

I read his comments, and have studied Chinese and China for years. While he took a pretty slight risk, (it seems) he only criticized other business owners and potential regulatory ideas. Honestly, his comments were so mild that you'd probably regularly hear similar stuff _coming from the regulators themselves_ in most other countries (developed or no). I'm not sure where on HN you found the sentiment Jack Ma was considered a national security threat. I think you're painting a picture here that is very bizarre, and not supplying the context necessary to understand why.

FooBarWidget 6y ago
> I'm not sure where on HN you found the sentiment Jack Ma was considered a national security threat. During the HN submission about Ant's IPO, before it was halted. For example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24910410 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24910410 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24906771 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24906771
- hawkice 6y ago
  One of those was flagged, so it's pretty clearly "not-HN". The other says it's a state-run business (which, I mean, lots of people disagreed with that). That's miles away from saying something is a security threat [edit: it's worth saying, for those not clicking the link, he compares it to Saudi Aramco, which is, I mean, I've never heard that IPO described as a security threat either, so there's not really even any implications I can detect]. Nowhere in there is the narrative you're describing.
  - sebmellen 6y ago
    It's gaslighting. The pro-China crowd has gotten very good at this. Look for the downvotes on posts with countervailing narratives.
    - dang 6y ago
      Please don't break the site guidelines like this. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html This sort of perception is notoriously unreliable and is pretty much entirely in the eye of the beholder. The majority of comments in this thread, and basically every other HN thread on the topic, are not at all as you describe.
      - sebmellen 6y ago
        Hey @dang, I appreciate your comment and will take it into account. I certainly appreciate your moderation and how quiet a place HN is in comparison with the rest of the rowdy world & internet. It's certainly a special place and I don't want to disturb that. As you can see here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25843540 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25843540, I do try to reach out where the opportunity is available, even with those I might disagree with. -- It seems you think this issue is particularly inflammatory to me (and others) because of "nationalistic interests," but for me it's much more about friendships. I have a group of Falun Gong practicing friends in Amsterdam, my math tutor was Taiwanese and had family who disappeared on the mainland, and I know a lot of people who were lucky enough to get out of China, including a very good family friend. On the other hand, an opthamologist who almost treated me and whose clinic I regularly visit stepped down after being ousted as a member of the Thousand Talents Program (see https://timesofsandiego.com/education/2019/07/08/ucsd-doctor-resigns-thousand-talents-china/ https://timesofsandiego.com/education/2019/07/08/ucsd-doctor...). -- With respect, I do think there is a lot of gaslighting in this thread (from my side as well, perhaps). I'll refrain from posting such things in the future.
        dang 6y ago
        I appreciate that you have deep personal connections to this issue, as do many other commenters, both on your side and the opposite side. What are we to do with that but try harder to respect each other?
        sebmellen 6y ago

FooBarWidget 6y ago

> I'm not sure where on HN you found the sentiment Jack Ma was considered a national security threat. During the HN submission about Ant's IPO, before it was halted. For example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24910410 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24910410 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24906771 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24906771

hawkice 6y ago
One of those was flagged, so it's pretty clearly "not-HN". The other says it's a state-run business (which, I mean, lots of people disagreed with that). That's miles away from saying something is a security threat [edit: it's worth saying, for those not clicking the link, he compares it to Saudi Aramco, which is, I mean, I've never heard that IPO described as a security threat either, so there's not really even any implications I can detect]. Nowhere in there is the narrative you're describing.
- sebmellen 6y ago
  It's gaslighting. The pro-China crowd has gotten very good at this. Look for the downvotes on posts with countervailing narratives.
  - dang 6y ago
    Please don't break the site guidelines like this. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html This sort of perception is notoriously unreliable and is pretty much entirely in the eye of the beholder. The majority of comments in this thread, and basically every other HN thread on the topic, are not at all as you describe.
    - sebmellen 6y ago
      Hey @dang, I appreciate your comment and will take it into account. I certainly appreciate your moderation and how quiet a place HN is in comparison with the rest of the rowdy world & internet. It's certainly a special place and I don't want to disturb that. As you can see here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25843540 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25843540, I do try to reach out where the opportunity is available, even with those I might disagree with. -- It seems you think this issue is particularly inflammatory to me (and others) because of "nationalistic interests," but for me it's much more about friendships. I have a group of Falun Gong practicing friends in Amsterdam, my math tutor was Taiwanese and had family who disappeared on the mainland, and I know a lot of people who were lucky enough to get out of China, including a very good family friend. On the other hand, an opthamologist who almost treated me and whose clinic I regularly visit stepped down after being ousted as a member of the Thousand Talents Program (see https://timesofsandiego.com/education/2019/07/08/ucsd-doctor-resigns-thousand-talents-china/ https://timesofsandiego.com/education/2019/07/08/ucsd-doctor...). -- With respect, I do think there is a lot of gaslighting in this thread (from my side as well, perhaps). I'll refrain from posting such things in the future.
      - dang 6y ago
        I appreciate that you have deep personal connections to this issue, as do many other commenters, both on your side and the opposite side. What are we to do with that but try harder to respect each other?
        sebmellen 6y ago