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I quite like the Big Sur UI and definitely don't consider it a train wreck. I've been a Mac user since the PowerBook G4, and the M1 MacBook Air with Big Sur is

I quite like the Big Sur UI and definitely don't consider it a train wreck. I've been a Mac user since the PowerBook G4, and the M1 MacBook Air with Big Sur is the best "desktop" computer I've ever owned. I have it connected to a beautiful 32" display, it's fast, silent and I find the UI very usable I see a strong vision in Big Sur, one that pulls macOS visually into line with iOS, but there are a lot of rough edges right now. Especially with some Catalyst apps bringing iOS paradigms onto Mac. Even Apple's Catalyst apps (News in particular) are just gross, can't even change the font size with a keyboard shortcut

mulmen 6y ago
Visually it is a dumpster fire. Window borders are inconsistently sized, the close/minimize/full screen buttons aren’t consistently placed. There’s an enormous amount of wasted space. You need that 32” monitor. My 16” RMBP now has as much usable space as my 13”. Keyboard navigation is bizarre. Try this: 1) Open Mail. 2) Cmd W. 3) Cmd 1 (or is it Cmd 0?!, hint: it’s whatever Messages isn’t!) 4) Without using your mouse select a message in your inbox. 5) Without using your mouse navigate to a folder under your inbox. 6) Without using your mouse navigate to an inbox in another account. All of this is possible in Catalina and earlier with zero confusion (selections are highlighted clearly) and can be done “backwards” using shift. In Big Sur some of it is actually impossible and you have to just guess where you start. When native apps aren’t even consistent in their behavior and appearance that is a trainwreck. You may be able to read the tea leaves and see a grand vision here but I have to use a half-baked desktop environment until Not-Jony Ive is satisfied they have reminded me they are not Jony Ive. To them I say, trust me, I noticed.
- interpol_p 6y ago
  I don't have a problem with using the smaller MacBook Air 13" screen for development (I upgraded from a 15" MBP) I'm not a huge Mail user so I'm not up-to-speed on keyboard shortcuts. But I was able to navigate with the keyboard easily — I hit tab to focus on the correct list then use the up/down arrows to select the inbox or message (your 4/5/6). After hitting Cmd+W both Cmd+0 or Cmd+1 bring the Mail window back for me. And Cmd+Shift+D still sends mail which is the main one I use I am a huge Xcode user and primarily use the keyboard for code navigation, and that is as good as ever on the 13" MacBook Air in Big Sur. Also use Sketch a lot, and that has been just great too I guess we have a very different perception of Big Sur but mine is generally favourable, and I don't see the wasted space that you see. There have been a few weekends where I have done all my work on the 13" MBA, which is only just now possible due to battery life, and the experience has been really, really nice
  - mulmen 6y ago
    Yes but those shortcuts are inconsistent. Cmd 1 does not bring back Messages for example. I have to press tab several times in Mail to figure out where I am in Big Sur where in Catalina the selection is always highlighted. You can’t use the keyboard to change mailboxes in Big Sur as far as I can tell. There’s no clear “language” to the shortcuts. You’d have more usable space with Catalina on that 13” screen. It was a noticeable loss of space upgrading from Catalina to Big Sur on a 16” RMBP. I used to have space for three partially overlayed windows on my 16” screen. Now I am lucky to get two. Usable space on a 16” Big Sur MacBook is similar to a 13” Catalina MacBook. I have both. My workflows changed. There is no benefit to me as a user. Take a look at this visual comparison: https://www.andrewdenty.com/blog/2020/07/01/a-visual-comparison-of-macos-catalina-and-big-sur.html https://www.andrewdenty.com/blog/2020/07/01/a-visual-compari... Look at the “traffic light” buttons. Note how much thicker the top bar is in Big Sur. It’s 50% taller! That’s a lost row of text.
    - interpol_p 6y ago
      Both Messages and Mail both use Cmd+0 to bring the message viewer to the front. That's what the shortcut is listed as in the Window menu. Same with Calendar if you close the main calendar window Messages does not have great keyboard navigation — I can't tab around like I can in Mail. I am putting this down to the fact it is a Catalyst app and they are a bit sloppy with consistency (not necessarily a Big Sur thing, as these were on Catalina)
      - mulmen 6y ago
        You’re right about Messages vs Mail. But in Catalina Cmd-1 selects the inbox and full sidebar navigation including between accounts is possible with arrow keys. Nested lists can expand and collapse with left and right. In Big Sur Cmd-1 just reopens the window with no selection. In addition you cannot navigate the full sidebar with arrow keys. Combine this with the lack of visual indication of your selection and keyboard navigation becomes a struggle. I have not found a UI improvement in Big Sur.

mulmen 6y ago

Visually it is a dumpster fire. Window borders are inconsistently sized, the close/minimize/full screen buttons aren’t consistently placed. There’s an enormous amount of wasted space. You need that 32” monitor. My 16” RMBP now has as much usable space as my 13”. Keyboard navigation is bizarre. Try this: 1) Open Mail. 2) Cmd W. 3) Cmd 1 (or is it Cmd 0?!, hint: it’s whatever Messages isn’t!) 4) Without using your mouse select a message in your inbox. 5) Without using your mouse navigate to a folder under your inbox. 6) Without using your mouse navigate to an inbox in another account. All of this is possible in Catalina and earlier with zero confusion (selections are highlighted clearly) and can be done “backwards” using shift. In Big Sur some of it is actually impossible and you have to just guess where you start. When native apps aren’t even consistent in their behavior and appearance that is a trainwreck. You may be able to read the tea leaves and see a grand vision here but I have to use a half-baked desktop environment until Not-Jony Ive is satisfied they have reminded me they are not Jony Ive. To them I say, trust me, I noticed.

interpol_p 6y ago
I don't have a problem with using the smaller MacBook Air 13" screen for development (I upgraded from a 15" MBP) I'm not a huge Mail user so I'm not up-to-speed on keyboard shortcuts. But I was able to navigate with the keyboard easily — I hit tab to focus on the correct list then use the up/down arrows to select the inbox or message (your 4/5/6). After hitting Cmd+W both Cmd+0 or Cmd+1 bring the Mail window back for me. And Cmd+Shift+D still sends mail which is the main one I use I am a huge Xcode user and primarily use the keyboard for code navigation, and that is as good as ever on the 13" MacBook Air in Big Sur. Also use Sketch a lot, and that has been just great too I guess we have a very different perception of Big Sur but mine is generally favourable, and I don't see the wasted space that you see. There have been a few weekends where I have done all my work on the 13" MBA, which is only just now possible due to battery life, and the experience has been really, really nice
- mulmen 6y ago
  Yes but those shortcuts are inconsistent. Cmd 1 does not bring back Messages for example. I have to press tab several times in Mail to figure out where I am in Big Sur where in Catalina the selection is always highlighted. You can’t use the keyboard to change mailboxes in Big Sur as far as I can tell. There’s no clear “language” to the shortcuts. You’d have more usable space with Catalina on that 13” screen. It was a noticeable loss of space upgrading from Catalina to Big Sur on a 16” RMBP. I used to have space for three partially overlayed windows on my 16” screen. Now I am lucky to get two. Usable space on a 16” Big Sur MacBook is similar to a 13” Catalina MacBook. I have both. My workflows changed. There is no benefit to me as a user. Take a look at this visual comparison: https://www.andrewdenty.com/blog/2020/07/01/a-visual-comparison-of-macos-catalina-and-big-sur.html https://www.andrewdenty.com/blog/2020/07/01/a-visual-compari... Look at the “traffic light” buttons. Note how much thicker the top bar is in Big Sur. It’s 50% taller! That’s a lost row of text.
  - interpol_p 6y ago
    Both Messages and Mail both use Cmd+0 to bring the message viewer to the front. That's what the shortcut is listed as in the Window menu. Same with Calendar if you close the main calendar window Messages does not have great keyboard navigation — I can't tab around like I can in Mail. I am putting this down to the fact it is a Catalyst app and they are a bit sloppy with consistency (not necessarily a Big Sur thing, as these were on Catalina)
    - mulmen 6y ago
      You’re right about Messages vs Mail. But in Catalina Cmd-1 selects the inbox and full sidebar navigation including between accounts is possible with arrow keys. Nested lists can expand and collapse with left and right. In Big Sur Cmd-1 just reopens the window with no selection. In addition you cannot navigate the full sidebar with arrow keys. Combine this with the lack of visual indication of your selection and keyboard navigation becomes a struggle. I have not found a UI improvement in Big Sur.