4 ms·

There's a big difference between: "When we show up and impose our "high standards" to make us feel morally superior, we do so from a very privileged perspectiv

by greedo 6y ago

There's a big difference between: "When we show up and impose our "high standards" to make us feel morally superior, we do so from a very privileged perspective and don't think about how that interacts with reality on the ground." and exploiting the economic situation in those countries.

DoreenMichele 6y ago
My son read some book -- he and I can't remember the name of it -- that more or less said "People in less developed countries line up around the block for jobs at multinational corporations because they pay twice as much and beat them half as much...before Westerners learn of the appallingly low pay, have a cow, threaten to vote with their wallet and insist on better treatment for those poor schmucks." Economic deals are routinely rooted in "It costs less to make it here for some reason. That's the whole appeal." and if you say we can't make those deals, you are more or less saying "We can't do business with those nations and should treat them all like charity cases where we can only send aid out of compassion for how much it sucks to be them while actively denying them the chance to participate in the world economy and improve their situation." Having been offered that same deal for a number of years as a homeless person, I can assure you that no one provides you a secure middle class life out of the goodness of their hearts and denying someone the opportunity to establish an earned income because of some kind of stated high ideals while also failing to take care of them in the manner to which you believe the entire world ought to be accustomed amounts to a big fat "Fuck you and the horse you road in on. Not my problem. I don't actually care about you. At all. And never will. I just like virtue signaling while being horrible to everyone poorer than me on some bullshit excuse or other."
- DaiPlusPlus 6y ago
  > Not my problem. I don't actually care about you. At all. And never will. I just like virtue signaling while being horrible to everyone poorer than me on some bullshit excuse or other I feel it's more like: "I want to care about you, honestly - but I just saw the price tag and now I don't want to seem like I'm being committal while making awkward conversation and trying to find a way out of here, oh, would you look at the time!" Groupthink-led virtue-signaling is real, but I feel lots of people are being earnest and well-meaning when they talk big, but are ignorant-of the costs of walking-the-walk.
  - DoreenMichele 6y ago
    At some point, looking good and doing good tend to part ways. You know someone's real values by which one they choose at that juncture. Far too many people double down on the looking good option wile being actively horrible. The degree to which I get downvotes instead of assistance for trying to make my life work when I talk about my firsthand experience is evidence of how common this is and it's gone on a lot of years. It's gone on long enough that I'm all out of patience for sympathetic explanations about how people mean well. When push comes to shove, far too many of them only want to be seen as good people and don't actually give a damn about anyone but themselves. That's the entire point of spouting nonsense they don't personally back up and walk the walk on.

by greedo 6y ago

DoreenMichele 6y ago

My son read some book -- he and I can't remember the name of it -- that more or less said "People in less developed countries line up around the block for jobs at multinational corporations because they pay twice as much and beat them half as much...before Westerners learn of the appallingly low pay, have a cow, threaten to vote with their wallet and insist on better treatment for those poor schmucks." Economic deals are routinely rooted in "It costs less to make it here for some reason. That's the whole appeal." and if you say we can't make those deals, you are more or less saying "We can't do business with those nations and should treat them all like charity cases where we can only send aid out of compassion for how much it sucks to be them while actively denying them the chance to participate in the world economy and improve their situation." Having been offered that same deal for a number of years as a homeless person, I can assure you that no one provides you a secure middle class life out of the goodness of their hearts and denying someone the opportunity to establish an earned income because of some kind of stated high ideals while also failing to take care of them in the manner to which you believe the entire world ought to be accustomed amounts to a big fat "Fuck you and the horse you road in on. Not my problem. I don't actually care about you. At all. And never will. I just like virtue signaling while being horrible to everyone poorer than me on some bullshit excuse or other."

DaiPlusPlus 6y ago
> Not my problem. I don't actually care about you. At all. And never will. I just like virtue signaling while being horrible to everyone poorer than me on some bullshit excuse or other I feel it's more like: "I want to care about you, honestly - but I just saw the price tag and now I don't want to seem like I'm being committal while making awkward conversation and trying to find a way out of here, oh, would you look at the time!" Groupthink-led virtue-signaling is real, but I feel lots of people are being earnest and well-meaning when they talk big, but are ignorant-of the costs of walking-the-walk.
- DoreenMichele 6y ago
  At some point, looking good and doing good tend to part ways. You know someone's real values by which one they choose at that juncture. Far too many people double down on the looking good option wile being actively horrible. The degree to which I get downvotes instead of assistance for trying to make my life work when I talk about my firsthand experience is evidence of how common this is and it's gone on a lot of years. It's gone on long enough that I'm all out of patience for sympathetic explanations about how people mean well. When push comes to shove, far too many of them only want to be seen as good people and don't actually give a damn about anyone but themselves. That's the entire point of spouting nonsense they don't personally back up and walk the walk on.