14 ms·

In Victoria, also bothered by how compliant everyone was. The lockdown was extremely hard. My vices tripled and I am still trying to reign them back in. I've h

In Victoria, also bothered by how compliant everyone was. The lockdown was extremely hard. My vices tripled and I am still trying to reign them back in. I've had a low key depression since June last year and still trying to shake it. As the parent comment said, they were an introvert, there are lots of people who aren't. (me) In my little suburb, it looks like 10 small businesses had to shutdown while all the mega stores were allowed to continue operation. I feel sorry for anyone who had a less than average housemate, stuck in a place with people for that long causes tension regardless if you like the person. I don't see any problem with people who broke the rules. The government told us from the start that we were just flattening the curve but then without telling us extended the lock-downs in some attempt for an elimination strategy. I personally don't think anyone in the world will ever know or feel what happened here in Melbourne so I expect to be down-voted also. ---- Just going to add what our stage 4 lockdown looked like which kinda lasted for 2 months at it's worst. - 8pm-5am curfew (you have to be at home) - no visitors - 5km radius (this lasted for what felt like 6 months) - you had to wear your mask as soon as you left your house (this went for months, we still have to wear masks in shops (even though we have zero cases)) - you could only go to the super market once per day, and you had to go by yourself - you were only allowed outside for exercise for 1 hour (with 1 person) - lots of shops forced you to give your details over and some demanded that you sanitize your hands (these are two things I didn't want to do for my own reasons) - no gyms, hospo, group events, activities etc - increase of police powers, fines around $1600 ----- We also locked a bunch of social housing people in their apartments for two weeks. They didn't even have balconies, just small ugly windows. I hope someone eventually gets sued for that decision. -> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-25/coronavirus-melbourne-public-housing-tower-shutdown-inquiry/12589372 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-25/coronavirus-melbourne...

elijaht 6y ago
I've been doing a large part of what you mention voluntarily for nearly the whole time and I'm curious what you take issue with - 8pm-5am curfew (you have to be at home) - no visitors - 5km radius (this lasted for what felt like 6 months) - you had to wear your mask as soon as you left your house (this went for months, we still have to wear masks in shops (even though we have zero cases)) - you could only go to the super market once per day, and you had to go by yourself - you were only allowed outside for exercise for 1 hour (with 1 person) - no gyms, hospo, group events, activities etc These all seem reasonable in a pandemic to me. Considering yalls success, I would say extremely reasonable. What is the alternative? A half assed version of those (my state imposed a weak curfew, bans to arbitrary activity, but nothing really targeted at preventing COVID). I think there is a particular horror in the current US (and elsewhere) experience where it quite literally feels like a lottery of who among your contacts will get it next. Is two months of an admitted harsh lockdown not worth avoiding that? - lots of shops forced you to give your details over and some demanded that you sanitize your hands (these are two things I didn't want to do for my own reasons) - increase of police powers, fines around $1600 That I find more concerning, and agree with you
- thomasfromcdnjs 6y ago
  I'm not convinced Victoria did anything special to beat the virus, aka I'm not convinced lock downs actually work. It could of just been; - seasonality - Victorians already had antibodies from other strains from years prior - our population may have not be as old as other places - we could just be a healthier society in general - we don't have subways etc But that is a rabbit hole discussion I won't have the time to go into; I think any information about Covid is just noise at this point, everyone (including me) just comes up with some shallow statements about what is going on with just a few data points. Every region of the world reports numbers on everything differently; - What test kits do you use, and what are their +/- rates - How do you report somebody died? (assumed covid, had covid, died from covid) - When does an active case become inactive? - How long do you think it incubates for? etc There is probably another 100+ important questions to ask. And then ask all those questions to different states/countries and all the answers are different. Yet we compare countries all the time. HIV/AIDS had a similar problem, you could have AID's in America, fly to Australia and we would of reported you as maybe not having AID's. "Even AIDS itself has a different definition depending on where you’re standing. In the U.S., AIDS is someone whose little virus-fighters, their CD4 cells, are below 200 per cubic mm of blood (normal is 500-1,500) or who is already showing symptoms. The WHO definition is anyone with a CD4 count below 350. In most European countries, you need to have an AIDS-related infection to be diagnosed with AIDS." https://newrepublic.com/article/117789/aids-data-country-why-its-difficult-compare-them https://newrepublic.com/article/117789/aids-data-country-why... Pretty good article, more or less my stance on Covid at the moment. So when we say the US had 400k deaths and Australia had 3k, I am extremely sceptical that we are reporting things in the same way at all. Edit: Co-authored paper by Donald Henderson who was credited with ridding the world of smallpox talking about the effectiveness of lock downs -> http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.552.1109&rep=rep1&type=pdf http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.552...
  - flukus 6y ago
    seasonality - We were getting on top of things at the coldest time of year. Victorians already had antibodies - absolutely no evidence of this and plenty of evidence to the contrary, if we had antibodies the second wave wouldn't have happened. we could just be a healthier - Healthy people still get covid. we don't have subways - Plenty of packed commuter trains and trams, having them underground makes no difference. Aside from all that, the case numbers correlate extremely well with when the lockdowns started and when their severity increased (https://chrisbillington.net/COVID_VIC.html https://chrisbillington.net/COVID_VIC.html), there are zero other rational explanations.
bibabaloo 6y ago
I don't understand this take. I went the same Melbourne lockdown and am extremely grateful for how the government handled it. I have colleagues in the US and, while they're not under strict and enforced lockdown, they've had to effectively self lockdown since the start of the pandemic. They also have 400,000 deaths and no real end in sight for when some normality might resume. I'm happy with the measures taken, even if they were a bit draconian, because now I can, without needing to worry too much, do normal things like going to visit friends/family and going out to restaurants/cafes. It sucked to have a curfew and only be able to get out of the house for 1 hour per day, sure, but it would suck much more if we were in a perpetual limbo state with only the promise of a vaccine to hope for.
- pmiller2 6y ago
  I agree. I have been on "self lockdown" since March, in the USA. I've been observing all of the following since then: > - 8pm-5am curfew (you have to be at home) Check. > - no visitors Other than my girlfriend, who broke up with me 3 months ago, check. > - 5km radius (this lasted for what felt like 6 months) Not really all that practical, but I certainly haven't been travelling about to strange places. I'd say my radius has been about 90% within the 5km, except for things I couldn't do within that radius, such as buying things that literally aren't available within 5km. In any case, I take my own car, by myself, and always wear a mask, so it's no more dangerous than going to the grocery store 1 mile away from me. > - you had to wear your mask as soon as you left your house (this went for months, we still have to wear masks in shops (even though we have zero cases)) Check, mostly. I don't wear it when I take my dog for a walk, but I also never run into anyone else when doing so. > - you could only go to the super market once per day, and you had to go by yourself Check. > - you were only allowed outside for exercise for 1 hour (with 1 person) Check, mostly. See above dog walks. > - no gyms, hospo, group events, activities etc 100% been avoiding all of these things since March, except for a trip to Tahoe in June with my then girlfriend, where we met up with her best friend. Other than said best friend, I was never within 6 feet of anyone else, although I was really nervous about how few people were wearing masks. We probably should not have made that trip, even though none of the three of us got sick. I wish they had just done these things for 2-3 months: > - lots of shops forced you to give your details over and some demanded that you sanitize your hands (these are two things I didn't want to do for my own reasons) > - increase of police powers, fines around $1600 The police bit is the part that really pisses me off. Technically, it's a misdemeanor to have a social gathering right now, but local police won't do shit about it. There have been 2 gatherings in my 6 unit apartment building during the time it's been banned. I don't want to get COVID because other people in my building are idiots. Proper use of lockdowns would have been to reduce cases to the point where contact tracing and testing could take over. Unfortunately, we haven't implemented those measures, either. To quote Death to 2020, "I'd say it was a train wreck and a shit show, but that would be unfair to trains and shit."
qmmmur 6y ago
That's cute. Try living in a country where similar restrictions are in effect. You had it easy and people complying was the only reason it worked so that you can get back to something resembling normal now.
- thomasfromcdnjs 6y ago
  Such as?
  - qmmmur 6y ago
    The UK. No curfews yet although its being discussed in government now. We are to leave the house once per week for shopping only.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - bennyelv 6y ago
      The UK restrictions are not this. You can leave the house whenever you like if you have “reasonable excuse”. There are no explicit restrictions on how often, how long for, and how far and where you can go. The UK government has been saying one thing, and enacting another in law, which leads to this one of confusion, but what you’ve stated there has never even been said as far as I know. The regulations: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1374/contents https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1374/contents Amendments for 2021: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2021/8/contents/made https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2021/8/contents/made
    - jlokier 6y ago
      In the UK. Went out several times in the last week for a long walk. It's allowed for exercise. Streets were fairly busy with people. The local town square was packed, every bench spot was taken. Seems people have decided lockdown 3 is for hanging out at the local square. Pancakes were on sale. At the same time, hospital ICUs are fuller than they have ever been, some hospitals are having to reduce oxygen supply per patient due to overload, and the death rate is higher than it's ever been. And people are outside those hospitals protesting without masks that the pandemic is a hoax and hospitals are "empty". What a thing for doctors and nurses coming off shift to walk into.
sumedh 6y ago
> also bothered by how compliant everyone was. You are also bothered by the fact there is no community transmission in Victoria anymore or you prefer the US version where you just let the virus loose?
- worker767424 6y ago
  > the US version where you just let the virus loose Herd immunity by August, with or without vaccines.
  - warlog 6y ago
    August 2022?
  - zwaps 6y ago
    Cost of how many lives?
    - tanseydavid 6y ago
      Unknowable.
      - worker767424 6y ago
        I get what you're saying, but there is an upper bound of roughly 1M in the US, depending on what the true case fatality rate is.
toomanybeersies 6y ago
As a counter to your anecdote, I managed to conquer most of my vices during lockdown. I cut my drinking to a couple of beers a week, stopped doing recreational drugs, checked out of a bunch of toxic interpersonal relationships, and sorted my finances out. I'm not sure what your situation is, but I'd highly recommend going to therapy or finding some other form of support. Signing up for therapy during lockdown was possibly the best decision I've ever made. It was something that I should have done years ago, and finally managed to do it last year, but having that extra support during lockdown was a huge help too. I don't want to go into more detail publicly, but I can send you an email with some links/resources/advice if you want?
- 8omizer 6y ago
  Something tells me you were the toxic one.
cableshaft 6y ago
I've been doing basically this voluntarily since the middle of March. I haven't stepped inside a building except a Walgreens once to get a flu vaccine. My own parents have only visited twice, and we only visited outside my front yard. I haven't seen any friends in person except for two brief times when they dropped something off at the house, and we talked outside with masks on. But then again, I live in the US, and we just officially crossed 400,000 deaths due to the virus, compared to less than 1,000 in Australia, it looks like. I can understand it would be more difficult to adhere to when the virus is so under control where you're at, but those lockdowns might be a big reason why.
blub 6y ago
Better one serious lockdown and then having some peace of mind than an endless series of half-assed lockdowns like in Europe. I've lost track of what "lockdown" we're in now and the people are getting really tired of the perceived incompetence of the government. We also royally screwed-up the vaccine management and it will take at least until end of summer to vaccinate enough of the population.

elijaht 6y ago

I've been doing a large part of what you mention voluntarily for nearly the whole time and I'm curious what you take issue with - 8pm-5am curfew (you have to be at home) - no visitors - 5km radius (this lasted for what felt like 6 months) - you had to wear your mask as soon as you left your house (this went for months, we still have to wear masks in shops (even though we have zero cases)) - you could only go to the super market once per day, and you had to go by yourself - you were only allowed outside for exercise for 1 hour (with 1 person) - no gyms, hospo, group events, activities etc These all seem reasonable in a pandemic to me. Considering yalls success, I would say extremely reasonable. What is the alternative? A half assed version of those (my state imposed a weak curfew, bans to arbitrary activity, but nothing really targeted at preventing COVID). I think there is a particular horror in the current US (and elsewhere) experience where it quite literally feels like a lottery of who among your contacts will get it next. Is two months of an admitted harsh lockdown not worth avoiding that? - lots of shops forced you to give your details over and some demanded that you sanitize your hands (these are two things I didn't want to do for my own reasons) - increase of police powers, fines around $1600 That I find more concerning, and agree with you

thomasfromcdnjs 6y ago
I'm not convinced Victoria did anything special to beat the virus, aka I'm not convinced lock downs actually work. It could of just been; - seasonality - Victorians already had antibodies from other strains from years prior - our population may have not be as old as other places - we could just be a healthier society in general - we don't have subways etc But that is a rabbit hole discussion I won't have the time to go into; I think any information about Covid is just noise at this point, everyone (including me) just comes up with some shallow statements about what is going on with just a few data points. Every region of the world reports numbers on everything differently; - What test kits do you use, and what are their +/- rates - How do you report somebody died? (assumed covid, had covid, died from covid) - When does an active case become inactive? - How long do you think it incubates for? etc There is probably another 100+ important questions to ask. And then ask all those questions to different states/countries and all the answers are different. Yet we compare countries all the time. HIV/AIDS had a similar problem, you could have AID's in America, fly to Australia and we would of reported you as maybe not having AID's. "Even AIDS itself has a different definition depending on where you’re standing. In the U.S., AIDS is someone whose little virus-fighters, their CD4 cells, are below 200 per cubic mm of blood (normal is 500-1,500) or who is already showing symptoms. The WHO definition is anyone with a CD4 count below 350. In most European countries, you need to have an AIDS-related infection to be diagnosed with AIDS." https://newrepublic.com/article/117789/aids-data-country-why-its-difficult-compare-them https://newrepublic.com/article/117789/aids-data-country-why... Pretty good article, more or less my stance on Covid at the moment. So when we say the US had 400k deaths and Australia had 3k, I am extremely sceptical that we are reporting things in the same way at all. Edit: Co-authored paper by Donald Henderson who was credited with ridding the world of smallpox talking about the effectiveness of lock downs -> http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.552.1109&rep=rep1&type=pdf http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.552...
- flukus 6y ago
  seasonality - We were getting on top of things at the coldest time of year. Victorians already had antibodies - absolutely no evidence of this and plenty of evidence to the contrary, if we had antibodies the second wave wouldn't have happened. we could just be a healthier - Healthy people still get covid. we don't have subways - Plenty of packed commuter trains and trams, having them underground makes no difference. Aside from all that, the case numbers correlate extremely well with when the lockdowns started and when their severity increased (https://chrisbillington.net/COVID_VIC.html https://chrisbillington.net/COVID_VIC.html), there are zero other rational explanations.

bibabaloo 6y ago

I don't understand this take. I went the same Melbourne lockdown and am extremely grateful for how the government handled it. I have colleagues in the US and, while they're not under strict and enforced lockdown, they've had to effectively self lockdown since the start of the pandemic. They also have 400,000 deaths and no real end in sight for when some normality might resume. I'm happy with the measures taken, even if they were a bit draconian, because now I can, without needing to worry too much, do normal things like going to visit friends/family and going out to restaurants/cafes. It sucked to have a curfew and only be able to get out of the house for 1 hour per day, sure, but it would suck much more if we were in a perpetual limbo state with only the promise of a vaccine to hope for.

pmiller2 6y ago
I agree. I have been on "self lockdown" since March, in the USA. I've been observing all of the following since then: > - 8pm-5am curfew (you have to be at home) Check. > - no visitors Other than my girlfriend, who broke up with me 3 months ago, check. > - 5km radius (this lasted for what felt like 6 months) Not really all that practical, but I certainly haven't been travelling about to strange places. I'd say my radius has been about 90% within the 5km, except for things I couldn't do within that radius, such as buying things that literally aren't available within 5km. In any case, I take my own car, by myself, and always wear a mask, so it's no more dangerous than going to the grocery store 1 mile away from me. > - you had to wear your mask as soon as you left your house (this went for months, we still have to wear masks in shops (even though we have zero cases)) Check, mostly. I don't wear it when I take my dog for a walk, but I also never run into anyone else when doing so. > - you could only go to the super market once per day, and you had to go by yourself Check. > - you were only allowed outside for exercise for 1 hour (with 1 person) Check, mostly. See above dog walks. > - no gyms, hospo, group events, activities etc 100% been avoiding all of these things since March, except for a trip to Tahoe in June with my then girlfriend, where we met up with her best friend. Other than said best friend, I was never within 6 feet of anyone else, although I was really nervous about how few people were wearing masks. We probably should not have made that trip, even though none of the three of us got sick. I wish they had just done these things for 2-3 months: > - lots of shops forced you to give your details over and some demanded that you sanitize your hands (these are two things I didn't want to do for my own reasons) > - increase of police powers, fines around $1600 The police bit is the part that really pisses me off. Technically, it's a misdemeanor to have a social gathering right now, but local police won't do shit about it. There have been 2 gatherings in my 6 unit apartment building during the time it's been banned. I don't want to get COVID because other people in my building are idiots. Proper use of lockdowns would have been to reduce cases to the point where contact tracing and testing could take over. Unfortunately, we haven't implemented those measures, either. To quote Death to 2020, "I'd say it was a train wreck and a shit show, but that would be unfair to trains and shit."

qmmmur 6y ago

That's cute. Try living in a country where similar restrictions are in effect. You had it easy and people complying was the only reason it worked so that you can get back to something resembling normal now.

thomasfromcdnjs 6y ago
Such as?
- qmmmur 6y ago
  The UK. No curfews yet although its being discussed in government now. We are to leave the house once per week for shopping only.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - bennyelv 6y ago
    The UK restrictions are not this. You can leave the house whenever you like if you have “reasonable excuse”. There are no explicit restrictions on how often, how long for, and how far and where you can go. The UK government has been saying one thing, and enacting another in law, which leads to this one of confusion, but what you’ve stated there has never even been said as far as I know. The regulations: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1374/contents https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1374/contents Amendments for 2021: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2021/8/contents/made https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2021/8/contents/made
  - jlokier 6y ago
    In the UK. Went out several times in the last week for a long walk. It's allowed for exercise. Streets were fairly busy with people. The local town square was packed, every bench spot was taken. Seems people have decided lockdown 3 is for hanging out at the local square. Pancakes were on sale. At the same time, hospital ICUs are fuller than they have ever been, some hospitals are having to reduce oxygen supply per patient due to overload, and the death rate is higher than it's ever been. And people are outside those hospitals protesting without masks that the pandemic is a hoax and hospitals are "empty". What a thing for doctors and nurses coming off shift to walk into.

sumedh 6y ago

> also bothered by how compliant everyone was. You are also bothered by the fact there is no community transmission in Victoria anymore or you prefer the US version where you just let the virus loose?

worker767424 6y ago
> the US version where you just let the virus loose Herd immunity by August, with or without vaccines.
- warlog 6y ago
  August 2022?
- zwaps 6y ago
  Cost of how many lives?
  - tanseydavid 6y ago
    Unknowable.
    - worker767424 6y ago
      I get what you're saying, but there is an upper bound of roughly 1M in the US, depending on what the true case fatality rate is.

toomanybeersies 6y ago

As a counter to your anecdote, I managed to conquer most of my vices during lockdown. I cut my drinking to a couple of beers a week, stopped doing recreational drugs, checked out of a bunch of toxic interpersonal relationships, and sorted my finances out. I'm not sure what your situation is, but I'd highly recommend going to therapy or finding some other form of support. Signing up for therapy during lockdown was possibly the best decision I've ever made. It was something that I should have done years ago, and finally managed to do it last year, but having that extra support during lockdown was a huge help too. I don't want to go into more detail publicly, but I can send you an email with some links/resources/advice if you want?

8omizer 6y ago
Something tells me you were the toxic one.

cableshaft 6y ago

I've been doing basically this voluntarily since the middle of March. I haven't stepped inside a building except a Walgreens once to get a flu vaccine. My own parents have only visited twice, and we only visited outside my front yard. I haven't seen any friends in person except for two brief times when they dropped something off at the house, and we talked outside with masks on. But then again, I live in the US, and we just officially crossed 400,000 deaths due to the virus, compared to less than 1,000 in Australia, it looks like. I can understand it would be more difficult to adhere to when the virus is so under control where you're at, but those lockdowns might be a big reason why.

blub 6y ago

Better one serious lockdown and then having some peace of mind than an endless series of half-assed lockdowns like in Europe. I've lost track of what "lockdown" we're in now and the people are getting really tired of the perceived incompetence of the government. We also royally screwed-up the vaccine management and it will take at least until end of summer to vaccinate enough of the population.