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> The second would be Apple pushing all MacBooks to M1 too soon, breaking certain tools and workflows. I don't think this is an issue. Apple has been fairly st

> The second would be Apple pushing all MacBooks to M1 too soon, breaking certain tools and workflows. I don't think this is an issue. Apple has been fairly straight about timelines and people who want to stick with Intel have plenty of time and options to get their stuff in a row in advance. More important, Apple fixed most of the major irritations with the MacBook Pro. If they hadn't launched the 16" MBP last year, people would have been stuck with a fairly old/ compromised design. I suspect Apple is going to maintain MacOS right where it is now. People have been worried about "iOSification" for nearly a decade now and while there have been some elements, the core functionality is fundamentally the same.

mulmen 6y ago
Big Sur has me more worried about iOS-ification than ever before. The UI is a train wreck. It looks designed for touch and I have no idea why. I guess Sidecar? They changed a ton about the UI in Big Sur, none of it for the better as far as I can tell. They took away even more choice, I can't have a "classic" desktop experience. My biggest frustration is that they were willing to make such drastic changes to the desktop UI at all. I have to re-learn a ton of keyboard navigation now. And there doesn't seem to be a coherent design to the workflows. Such a drastic change seems to be an admission that they thought the previous design language was wrong but they seem to have replaced it with... no vision at all? I am hopeful for the next generation of M1 MacBook Pros and whatever the next MacOS is. Hopefully they get their design philosophy straight and stick with it.
- alsetmusic 6y ago
  > Such a drastic change seems to be an admission that they thought the previous design language was wrong but they seem to have replaced it with... no vision at all? Sure, but Jonny Ive just officially left. He was head of all design (when he should have been head of hardware design only). It’s natural that there would be greater-than-usual changes as someone new took over. Big Sur has some pretty terrible changes. There’s nothing surprising that changes occurred. The only surprise is how bad they are.
  - mulmen 6y ago
    Yeah exactly. I understand what is going on here. I’m just frustrated I have to suffer through it for the vanity of Not-Jony-Ive.
    - ogre_codes 6y ago
      The frustrating thing for me is the whole idea of rebooting things visually when it's not based on productivity or additional features. So much of this is just a visual reboot. Overall though when I hear about the "iOSification" I worry foremost about locking down the OS which doesn't seem to be a big issue. My personal computer is on Big Sur, but I've kept my work laptop on Catalina so a lot of this doesn't hit me work wise. It doesn't seem too horrible to me when working on private projects but that's a small percentage of my time.
- interpol_p 6y ago
  I quite like the Big Sur UI and definitely don't consider it a train wreck. I've been a Mac user since the PowerBook G4, and the M1 MacBook Air with Big Sur is the best "desktop" computer I've ever owned. I have it connected to a beautiful 32" display, it's fast, silent and I find the UI very usable I see a strong vision in Big Sur, one that pulls macOS visually into line with iOS, but there are a lot of rough edges right now. Especially with some Catalyst apps bringing iOS paradigms onto Mac. Even Apple's Catalyst apps (News in particular) are just gross, can't even change the font size with a keyboard shortcut
  - mulmen 6y ago
    Visually it is a dumpster fire. Window borders are inconsistently sized, the close/minimize/full screen buttons aren’t consistently placed. There’s an enormous amount of wasted space. You need that 32” monitor. My 16” RMBP now has as much usable space as my 13”. Keyboard navigation is bizarre. Try this: 1) Open Mail. 2) Cmd W. 3) Cmd 1 (or is it Cmd 0?!, hint: it’s whatever Messages isn’t!) 4) Without using your mouse select a message in your inbox. 5) Without using your mouse navigate to a folder under your inbox. 6) Without using your mouse navigate to an inbox in another account. All of this is possible in Catalina and earlier with zero confusion (selections are highlighted clearly) and can be done “backwards” using shift. In Big Sur some of it is actually impossible and you have to just guess where you start. When native apps aren’t even consistent in their behavior and appearance that is a trainwreck. You may be able to read the tea leaves and see a grand vision here but I have to use a half-baked desktop environment until Not-Jony Ive is satisfied they have reminded me they are not Jony Ive. To them I say, trust me, I noticed.
    - interpol_p 6y ago
      I don't have a problem with using the smaller MacBook Air 13" screen for development (I upgraded from a 15" MBP) I'm not a huge Mail user so I'm not up-to-speed on keyboard shortcuts. But I was able to navigate with the keyboard easily — I hit tab to focus on the correct list then use the up/down arrows to select the inbox or message (your 4/5/6). After hitting Cmd+W both Cmd+0 or Cmd+1 bring the Mail window back for me. And Cmd+Shift+D still sends mail which is the main one I use I am a huge Xcode user and primarily use the keyboard for code navigation, and that is as good as ever on the 13" MacBook Air in Big Sur. Also use Sketch a lot, and that has been just great too I guess we have a very different perception of Big Sur but mine is generally favourable, and I don't see the wasted space that you see. There have been a few weekends where I have done all my work on the 13" MBA, which is only just now possible due to battery life, and the experience has been really, really nice
- ogre_codes 6y ago
  > My biggest frustration is that they were willing to make such drastic changes to the desktop UI at all. I feel you there, one of the reasons I didn't like Windows is big, seemingly random UI changes. I don't think Bir Sur is crazy like Windows NT -> Windows Vista crazy, just feels like a big change for MacOS which has been relatively stable for a few years. Seems like Apple tends to go long when they make big sweeping UI changes, then in the following releases they dial things back or work out the glitches. It's frustrating for certain.

mulmen 6y ago

Big Sur has me more worried about iOS-ification than ever before. The UI is a train wreck. It looks designed for touch and I have no idea why. I guess Sidecar? They changed a ton about the UI in Big Sur, none of it for the better as far as I can tell. They took away even more choice, I can't have a "classic" desktop experience. My biggest frustration is that they were willing to make such drastic changes to the desktop UI at all. I have to re-learn a ton of keyboard navigation now. And there doesn't seem to be a coherent design to the workflows. Such a drastic change seems to be an admission that they thought the previous design language was wrong but they seem to have replaced it with... no vision at all? I am hopeful for the next generation of M1 MacBook Pros and whatever the next MacOS is. Hopefully they get their design philosophy straight and stick with it.

alsetmusic 6y ago
> Such a drastic change seems to be an admission that they thought the previous design language was wrong but they seem to have replaced it with... no vision at all? Sure, but Jonny Ive just officially left. He was head of all design (when he should have been head of hardware design only). It’s natural that there would be greater-than-usual changes as someone new took over. Big Sur has some pretty terrible changes. There’s nothing surprising that changes occurred. The only surprise is how bad they are.
- mulmen 6y ago
  Yeah exactly. I understand what is going on here. I’m just frustrated I have to suffer through it for the vanity of Not-Jony-Ive.
  - ogre_codes 6y ago
    The frustrating thing for me is the whole idea of rebooting things visually when it's not based on productivity or additional features. So much of this is just a visual reboot. Overall though when I hear about the "iOSification" I worry foremost about locking down the OS which doesn't seem to be a big issue. My personal computer is on Big Sur, but I've kept my work laptop on Catalina so a lot of this doesn't hit me work wise. It doesn't seem too horrible to me when working on private projects but that's a small percentage of my time.
interpol_p 6y ago
I quite like the Big Sur UI and definitely don't consider it a train wreck. I've been a Mac user since the PowerBook G4, and the M1 MacBook Air with Big Sur is the best "desktop" computer I've ever owned. I have it connected to a beautiful 32" display, it's fast, silent and I find the UI very usable I see a strong vision in Big Sur, one that pulls macOS visually into line with iOS, but there are a lot of rough edges right now. Especially with some Catalyst apps bringing iOS paradigms onto Mac. Even Apple's Catalyst apps (News in particular) are just gross, can't even change the font size with a keyboard shortcut
- mulmen 6y ago
  Visually it is a dumpster fire. Window borders are inconsistently sized, the close/minimize/full screen buttons aren’t consistently placed. There’s an enormous amount of wasted space. You need that 32” monitor. My 16” RMBP now has as much usable space as my 13”. Keyboard navigation is bizarre. Try this: 1) Open Mail. 2) Cmd W. 3) Cmd 1 (or is it Cmd 0?!, hint: it’s whatever Messages isn’t!) 4) Without using your mouse select a message in your inbox. 5) Without using your mouse navigate to a folder under your inbox. 6) Without using your mouse navigate to an inbox in another account. All of this is possible in Catalina and earlier with zero confusion (selections are highlighted clearly) and can be done “backwards” using shift. In Big Sur some of it is actually impossible and you have to just guess where you start. When native apps aren’t even consistent in their behavior and appearance that is a trainwreck. You may be able to read the tea leaves and see a grand vision here but I have to use a half-baked desktop environment until Not-Jony Ive is satisfied they have reminded me they are not Jony Ive. To them I say, trust me, I noticed.
  - interpol_p 6y ago
    I don't have a problem with using the smaller MacBook Air 13" screen for development (I upgraded from a 15" MBP) I'm not a huge Mail user so I'm not up-to-speed on keyboard shortcuts. But I was able to navigate with the keyboard easily — I hit tab to focus on the correct list then use the up/down arrows to select the inbox or message (your 4/5/6). After hitting Cmd+W both Cmd+0 or Cmd+1 bring the Mail window back for me. And Cmd+Shift+D still sends mail which is the main one I use I am a huge Xcode user and primarily use the keyboard for code navigation, and that is as good as ever on the 13" MacBook Air in Big Sur. Also use Sketch a lot, and that has been just great too I guess we have a very different perception of Big Sur but mine is generally favourable, and I don't see the wasted space that you see. There have been a few weekends where I have done all my work on the 13" MBA, which is only just now possible due to battery life, and the experience has been really, really nice
ogre_codes 6y ago
> My biggest frustration is that they were willing to make such drastic changes to the desktop UI at all. I feel you there, one of the reasons I didn't like Windows is big, seemingly random UI changes. I don't think Bir Sur is crazy like Windows NT -> Windows Vista crazy, just feels like a big change for MacOS which has been relatively stable for a few years. Seems like Apple tends to go long when they make big sweeping UI changes, then in the following releases they dial things back or work out the glitches. It's frustrating for certain.