5 ms·

Interesting bits about the 'bottleneck' being the lipid envelope. This sounds highly proprietary and very, very new (eg, not widely tested). How can these pro

Interesting bits about the 'bottleneck' being the lipid envelope. This sounds highly proprietary and very, very new (eg, not widely tested). How can these products be QA'd by an independent lab to be free from significant defects? Are the doses being distributed produced on the same line with the same procedure as the doses in the trials?

nojito 6y ago
People have been taking the vaccine for almost a year now. The idea that there are significant side effects that have failed to surface makes zero sense.
- postalrat 6y ago
  Because some side effects like cancer may take a while to manifest.
  - tzs 6y ago
    Don't almost all chemical carcinogens basically raise the probability you will get cancer while the carcinogen is present in you, with higher concentrations raising the probability more? And so your cancer chances are roughly the integral over time of the concentration of the carcinogen within you? For either of these vaccines even if some part of the delivery/packaging mechanism, such as the lipid enclosure, is carcinogenic, you are only getting a small amount and only getting two short exposures. It seems like that would make the cancer rate from them so low as to be almost impossible to detect.
    - toast0 6y ago
      As you said, the exposure amount is quite low, so barring something really toxic, I wouldn't expect a danger from chemical reactions. However, the body is a complex system; if something in the vaccine triggers a change in function, that could lead to side effects that are only detected years later; most likely through epidemiologic studies comparing those who got the different types of vaccines with those who didn't. Of course, the disease itself has potential long term effects as well; and has already been studied to have significant medium term effects.
    - postalrat 6y ago
      Maybe in addition to offering immunity to covid-19 it also changes your immune response to a type of cancer cell. Then it's found that people with this change almost always suffer from the same type of cancer. Some viruses are known to cause: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infectious_causes_of_cancer#Viruses https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infectious_causes_of_cancer#Vi... Right now our best guess is these vaccines are safe but there is no guarantee of that.
- peytn 6y ago
  I believe for Pfizer the preclinical DART and teratogenicity studies in rats are still ongoing, but nobody expects the readouts to be anything bad. That was in the last update I saw, so my info may be out of date.
- flobosg 6y ago
  Pandemrix, an influenza vaccine, was associated to an increased risk of narcolepsy for up to two years after administration.

nojito 6y ago

People have been taking the vaccine for almost a year now. The idea that there are significant side effects that have failed to surface makes zero sense.

postalrat 6y ago
Because some side effects like cancer may take a while to manifest.
- tzs 6y ago
  Don't almost all chemical carcinogens basically raise the probability you will get cancer while the carcinogen is present in you, with higher concentrations raising the probability more? And so your cancer chances are roughly the integral over time of the concentration of the carcinogen within you? For either of these vaccines even if some part of the delivery/packaging mechanism, such as the lipid enclosure, is carcinogenic, you are only getting a small amount and only getting two short exposures. It seems like that would make the cancer rate from them so low as to be almost impossible to detect.
  - toast0 6y ago
    As you said, the exposure amount is quite low, so barring something really toxic, I wouldn't expect a danger from chemical reactions. However, the body is a complex system; if something in the vaccine triggers a change in function, that could lead to side effects that are only detected years later; most likely through epidemiologic studies comparing those who got the different types of vaccines with those who didn't. Of course, the disease itself has potential long term effects as well; and has already been studied to have significant medium term effects.
  - postalrat 6y ago
    Maybe in addition to offering immunity to covid-19 it also changes your immune response to a type of cancer cell. Then it's found that people with this change almost always suffer from the same type of cancer. Some viruses are known to cause: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infectious_causes_of_cancer#Viruses https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infectious_causes_of_cancer#Vi... Right now our best guess is these vaccines are safe but there is no guarantee of that.
peytn 6y ago
I believe for Pfizer the preclinical DART and teratogenicity studies in rats are still ongoing, but nobody expects the readouts to be anything bad. That was in the last update I saw, so my info may be out of date.
flobosg 6y ago
Pandemrix, an influenza vaccine, was associated to an increased risk of narcolepsy for up to two years after administration.