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With respect, I don't think the other commenter is deferring to Facebook's abilities and openness to resolve bugs in the cryptographic process, but pointing out

With respect, I don't think the other commenter is deferring to Facebook's abilities and openness to resolve bugs in the cryptographic process, but pointing out ways they can continue to act that align with open questions from their past. e.g. https://www.cnet.com/news/facebook-bug-has-camera-activated-while-people-are-using-the-app/ https://www.cnet.com/news/facebook-bug-has-camera-activated-... Where the question arises: was it a bug that the camera was on, or that it was revealed inadvertently? Hence the discussion of trust in the client. That is an instance where Facebook lost some of that trust "in buckets". It's true that "shit happens", but when it "happens" reptitively the questions begin to emerge. I don't think that's unfair. I mean, I'm sure few people would use a stock Ford Pinto as their regular driver, regardless of Ford's intentions or engineering capabilities.

HenryBemis 6y ago
Why we should never trust Facebook: 1) well.. their CEO is a scumbag. 2) not only the CEO is a scumbag, apparently there are plenty more where he came from (scumbagland??)of them in there: https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidphelan/2019/02/01/apple-blocks-google-and-facebook-ios-enterprise-certificates-now-restored/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidphelan/2019/02/01/apple-bl... That second point didn't "just" happen. It was organized. It was planned. It was tested. It was approved. It was rolled out. And I didn't read about 10-50-100 people quitting/getting fired after this fallout. So.. another day at work. This time they got busted. So with CA. So with experimenting on our psychology by manipulating order of showing posts (effectively cancelling out the chronological order). PS: and right when I thought I would only post positive messages on HN from now one.. a FB post comes up..!! PS2: I guess FB is useful to some. I wish them the best!! (there is a positive note!)
sweis 6y ago
The original statement I had disputed was "[Facebook has] the keys to decrypt [Secret Conversations messages]", which is false. If you think the contrary, then the evidence is in the client.
- klyrs 6y ago
  I'm perfectly willing to accept that they don't have access to the keys. But that's not the only kind of security failure -- the "steel door in a wooden frame" sorts of issues. For example: can the app take screenshots of decrypted messages?
  - quasirandom 6y ago
    Or phone home with the keys. Without reproducible builds and a transparent codebase, we'll simply never know.

HenryBemis 6y ago

Why we should never trust Facebook: 1) well.. their CEO is a scumbag. 2) not only the CEO is a scumbag, apparently there are plenty more where he came from (scumbagland??)of them in there: https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidphelan/2019/02/01/apple-blocks-google-and-facebook-ios-enterprise-certificates-now-restored/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidphelan/2019/02/01/apple-bl... That second point didn't "just" happen. It was organized. It was planned. It was tested. It was approved. It was rolled out. And I didn't read about 10-50-100 people quitting/getting fired after this fallout. So.. another day at work. This time they got busted. So with CA. So with experimenting on our psychology by manipulating order of showing posts (effectively cancelling out the chronological order). PS: and right when I thought I would only post positive messages on HN from now one.. a FB post comes up..!! PS2: I guess FB is useful to some. I wish them the best!! (there is a positive note!)

sweis 6y ago

The original statement I had disputed was "[Facebook has] the keys to decrypt [Secret Conversations messages]", which is false. If you think the contrary, then the evidence is in the client.

klyrs 6y ago
I'm perfectly willing to accept that they don't have access to the keys. But that's not the only kind of security failure -- the "steel door in a wooden frame" sorts of issues. For example: can the app take screenshots of decrypted messages?
- quasirandom 6y ago
  Or phone home with the keys. Without reproducible builds and a transparent codebase, we'll simply never know.