4 ms·

I'm sure I'll get a lot of hate for this, but honestly FCC regulation of ham radio is at best antiquated cold war bullshit (ie, crypto bans) and at worst gateke

I'm sure I'll get a lot of hate for this, but honestly FCC regulation of ham radio is at best antiquated cold war bullshit (ie, crypto bans) and at worst gatekeeping for a bunch of old men who can dox themselves in order to get exclusive access to some bands. Every single person here uses high powered encrypted communication without a license, it's a cell phone.

bob1029 6y ago
Hypothetically, if I were to develop some DSSS technique that operates below the noise floor and utilizes a strong AES2 cipher, who the hell cares how I use it?
- wiml 6y ago
  If you're "below the noise floor" you may well be under Part 15, which is the "who the hell cares" part of the rules, and you're fine. If your signal is strong enough to interfere with common uses of the band, well, then that's why people care.
nikitaga 6y ago
> Every single person here uses high powered encrypted communication without a license, it's a cell phone. Your cell service provider holds the license. Ham radio exam is not hard, and does not require special training, just some basic knowledge of how radios work and what the regulations are. I don't see what the issue is.
- bdowling 6y ago
  > Ham radio exam is not hard... Not only that, but every exam question comes from a published pool of questions [0]. If you can memorize the answers to those questions, then you don’t need to learn anything about how radio works at all. [0] http://www.arrl.org/question-pools http://www.arrl.org/question-pools
- generalizations 6y ago
  You're missing the point. I would only bother to take the exam if I could use my radio for encrypted packet radio. I'd love to set up a long range meshnet, but it's only useful if it's encrypted. There's a lot of fundamental infrastructure decentralization that can happen once some of the HAM frequencies allow encrypted use.
  - mjevans 6y ago
    They're only useful precisely because they aren't being used for that. What you really want instead is something like the HAM license allowing the use of point to point equipment at higher power and on frequencies reserved for operators that respect the communications medium.
    - generalizations 6y ago
      I was referring to the exam for the HAM license, which I don't want or find interesting because it doesn't allow encryption. Encryption is pretty basic at this point. I want to set up long-range, encrypted, decentralized, p2p mesh networks with my friends. Because I'm accustomed to private conversations, and HAM radio represents a huge step backwards in that regard. I find it more believable that the government is scared of such technology than that encryption would be such a detriment to the HAM radio community.
  - MrMorden 6y ago
    You can absolutely do that, and there are several potential license and license-free options. None of them are amateur radio, however.
    - generalizations 6y ago
      I'm curious what the license-free options are that you're referring to. I thought I'd done my research, but I missed that.
      - MrMorden 6y ago
- some_random 6y ago
  At the end of the day, my problems with ham is 1: For stupid legacy reasons, I can't use crypto 2: In order to get and hold a license, I have to provide my full name and address, which is then PUBLICLY AVAILABLE
  - justin66 6y ago
    It sounds like what you'd approve of is something entirely different than Amateur Radio. Neither of the things you mention is an accident or "legacy" restriction.
    - some_random 6y ago
      Ah yes, what would amateur radio be if my name and address weren't published for all to see. No, I don't care about ham, I care about the many other things you need a ham license for, such as flying drones in some configurations. I never said any of this was an accident, and the cryto stuff is absolutely cold war legacy bs.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
jMyles 6y ago
> I'm sure I'll get a lot of hate for this My experience in the amateur radio community is that hate is exceedingly rare, although disagreement is common. > Every single person here uses high powered encrypted communication without a license, it's a cell phone. So let's have a discussion: do we really want these kickass bands to become another cell phone band? I think it's useful to have a part of the spectrum on which deafening corporate rent-seeking cannot hide. I work full-time on cryptology, so I'm no stranger to the benefits of developing network protocols with cryptographic primitives in mind. However, the radio spectrum is a great place to let many flowers bloom, and the amatuer bands appear to be experiencing a lovely, overdue bloom right now. I bought an Icom-7100 last year, and the rapid growth of linux support for hacking on low-signal modes is wonderful to see, and I think it's happening because this band is the way that it is. > FCC regulation of ham radio is at best antiquated cold war bullshit Listen: I'm all for completely abolishing the FCC. However, I also recognize that the amateur radio licensing program plays a very important role in society: it allows us to stand and be counted in favor of tinkering and experimentation in the mainstream of some of the best bands on the spectrum. It prevents the government and its cronies from claiming that these bands are fallow and better utilized as even more centralized, profiteering, plastic bullshit. I don't disagree with your thinking, I just ask that we apply different thinking to different parts of the spectrum so that we can have a more robust and diverse experimental reckoning of the airwaves with which we're blessed.
- schoolornot 6y ago
  Use it or lose it in my opinion. The bands are underutilized and the barrier of entry, regardless of what most people think, is too high. Joe Shmoe should be able to watch an hour long video and then get a call sign the same day after passing an exam. Why a tech needs to understand antenna theory, space transmissions, and ionosphere reflection is beyond me. Cool, sure. Essential, c’mon.
  - zymhan 6y ago
    > Why a tech needs to understand antenna theory, space transmissions, and ionosphere reflection is beyond me. It's like asking why a car driver needs to understand when to turn off high-beams, when not to honk, and how to safely open their door after parking on a busy street. i.e. we live in a society, other people are affected by your actions.

bob1029 6y ago

Hypothetically, if I were to develop some DSSS technique that operates below the noise floor and utilizes a strong AES2 cipher, who the hell cares how I use it?

wiml 6y ago
If you're "below the noise floor" you may well be under Part 15, which is the "who the hell cares" part of the rules, and you're fine. If your signal is strong enough to interfere with common uses of the band, well, then that's why people care.

nikitaga 6y ago

> Every single person here uses high powered encrypted communication without a license, it's a cell phone. Your cell service provider holds the license. Ham radio exam is not hard, and does not require special training, just some basic knowledge of how radios work and what the regulations are. I don't see what the issue is.

bdowling 6y ago
> Ham radio exam is not hard... Not only that, but every exam question comes from a published pool of questions [0]. If you can memorize the answers to those questions, then you don’t need to learn anything about how radio works at all. [0] http://www.arrl.org/question-pools http://www.arrl.org/question-pools
generalizations 6y ago
You're missing the point. I would only bother to take the exam if I could use my radio for encrypted packet radio. I'd love to set up a long range meshnet, but it's only useful if it's encrypted. There's a lot of fundamental infrastructure decentralization that can happen once some of the HAM frequencies allow encrypted use.
- mjevans 6y ago
  They're only useful precisely because they aren't being used for that. What you really want instead is something like the HAM license allowing the use of point to point equipment at higher power and on frequencies reserved for operators that respect the communications medium.
  - generalizations 6y ago
    I was referring to the exam for the HAM license, which I don't want or find interesting because it doesn't allow encryption. Encryption is pretty basic at this point. I want to set up long-range, encrypted, decentralized, p2p mesh networks with my friends. Because I'm accustomed to private conversations, and HAM radio represents a huge step backwards in that regard. I find it more believable that the government is scared of such technology than that encryption would be such a detriment to the HAM radio community.
- MrMorden 6y ago
  You can absolutely do that, and there are several potential license and license-free options. None of them are amateur radio, however.
  - generalizations 6y ago
    I'm curious what the license-free options are that you're referring to. I thought I'd done my research, but I missed that.
    - MrMorden 6y ago
some_random 6y ago
At the end of the day, my problems with ham is 1: For stupid legacy reasons, I can't use crypto 2: In order to get and hold a license, I have to provide my full name and address, which is then PUBLICLY AVAILABLE
- justin66 6y ago
  It sounds like what you'd approve of is something entirely different than Amateur Radio. Neither of the things you mention is an accident or "legacy" restriction.
  - some_random 6y ago
    Ah yes, what would amateur radio be if my name and address weren't published for all to see. No, I don't care about ham, I care about the many other things you need a ham license for, such as flying drones in some configurations. I never said any of this was an accident, and the cryto stuff is absolutely cold war legacy bs.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]

jMyles 6y ago

> I'm sure I'll get a lot of hate for this My experience in the amateur radio community is that hate is exceedingly rare, although disagreement is common. > Every single person here uses high powered encrypted communication without a license, it's a cell phone. So let's have a discussion: do we really want these kickass bands to become another cell phone band? I think it's useful to have a part of the spectrum on which deafening corporate rent-seeking cannot hide. I work full-time on cryptology, so I'm no stranger to the benefits of developing network protocols with cryptographic primitives in mind. However, the radio spectrum is a great place to let many flowers bloom, and the amatuer bands appear to be experiencing a lovely, overdue bloom right now. I bought an Icom-7100 last year, and the rapid growth of linux support for hacking on low-signal modes is wonderful to see, and I think it's happening because this band is the way that it is. > FCC regulation of ham radio is at best antiquated cold war bullshit Listen: I'm all for completely abolishing the FCC. However, I also recognize that the amateur radio licensing program plays a very important role in society: it allows us to stand and be counted in favor of tinkering and experimentation in the mainstream of some of the best bands on the spectrum. It prevents the government and its cronies from claiming that these bands are fallow and better utilized as even more centralized, profiteering, plastic bullshit. I don't disagree with your thinking, I just ask that we apply different thinking to different parts of the spectrum so that we can have a more robust and diverse experimental reckoning of the airwaves with which we're blessed.

schoolornot 6y ago
Use it or lose it in my opinion. The bands are underutilized and the barrier of entry, regardless of what most people think, is too high. Joe Shmoe should be able to watch an hour long video and then get a call sign the same day after passing an exam. Why a tech needs to understand antenna theory, space transmissions, and ionosphere reflection is beyond me. Cool, sure. Essential, c’mon.
- zymhan 6y ago
  > Why a tech needs to understand antenna theory, space transmissions, and ionosphere reflection is beyond me. It's like asking why a car driver needs to understand when to turn off high-beams, when not to honk, and how to safely open their door after parking on a busy street. i.e. we live in a society, other people are affected by your actions.