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Thanks for your response instead of just downvoting. > What good would come of such revenge? One bad person less. And, yes, I'd feel a bit better. Not much m

Thanks for your response instead of just downvoting. > What good would come of such revenge? One bad person less. And, yes, I'd feel a bit better. Not much maybe. I might even question it in the long run. But think about the alternative. In Germany it is not at all unheard of that murderers (who murdered for sexual desire or greed) get less than ten years of sentencing and are on day parole after a couple of years. How would you feel about that? What "good" comes from that? Do you maybe even wish that person a happy life? > to expand, if (god forbid) someone did that to my daughter, my instinct would not be to kill them, it would be to find them, talk them, to understand why they did it. You want to ask the guy "Why did you rape and kill my daughter?"? Are you kidding yourself? What would you expect for an answer? Also in this hypothetical situation you'd have to use force to even ask that question. You think you'd get an honest answer? "Sorry, didn't know it's your daughter." "I was just so horny - didn't know what else to do." What would you expect for an answer that even has the slightes potential of being meaningful to your pain? > to make them truly understand the consequences of what they had done. People who rape and kill don't tend to be the "understanding" type ... just think about how f'ed up someone has to be to do that. > I don't feel like killing them would achieve any of that. How about asking questions, then torturing, then killing. You'd get the cake and eat it, too.

xenophonf 6y ago
> One bad person less. Reform is better than revenge. Not only would society lose a bad person, we'd gain a good one. > How about asking questions, then torturing, then killing. You'd get the cake and eat it, too. This would serve only to turn good people into that which they condemn.
- imwillofficial 6y ago
  “Reform is better than revenge” Cite your sources where a rapist and murderer is a benefit to society after reform. “This would serve only to turn good people into that which they condemn” How is the murder and rape of an innocent comparable to the punishment of a murderer and rapist? How do you measure reform? Are their limits to what should be reformed? Do the risks of relapse ever outweigh the benefit of reform? An example to consider are the France Shooters or the Boston Marathon Bomber.
  - xenophonf 6y ago
    I explained my logic in the previous comment and don't feel the need to go into further detail. Demanding sources isn't really a logical argument, anyway.
  - nicoburns 6y ago
    IMO the limits lie where someone isn't interested or can't be reformed. If I could turn the Boston Marathon Bombers into adovcates against extremism I would. And if successful they'd likely be very good at it because they'd understand the motives of other extremists better. It doesn't work with everyone (that's why we have prisons), but AFAIK it's not that uncommon for people to tunr their lives aeound in this way. Most criminals are not inherently sadistic: they do care about other people. Their upbringing and circumstances just lead them to a bad place and they ended up taking that out on someone else. That doesn't mean they aren't repsonsible for their actions or that they shouldn't be punished, but it doesn mean that they can often be rehabilitated with the right support. And that's generally a win-win scenario where it is possible.
- Aeronwen 6y ago
  >This would serve only to turn good people into that which they condemn. But they can reform.
btilly 6y ago
Per capita both rapes and murders happen in the USA at around 10x the rate that the respective crimes happen in Germany. Rather than give lectures about how stupid the German approach is, you should probably be asking questions about why their approach is working better in practice. If you're looking for the time to do so, I'd suggest reallocating the time you're currently spending imagining the pleasure of torturing an imaginary criminal in the aftermath of an imagined crime that hasn't actually happened.

xenophonf 6y ago

> One bad person less. Reform is better than revenge. Not only would society lose a bad person, we'd gain a good one. > How about asking questions, then torturing, then killing. You'd get the cake and eat it, too. This would serve only to turn good people into that which they condemn.

imwillofficial 6y ago
“Reform is better than revenge” Cite your sources where a rapist and murderer is a benefit to society after reform. “This would serve only to turn good people into that which they condemn” How is the murder and rape of an innocent comparable to the punishment of a murderer and rapist? How do you measure reform? Are their limits to what should be reformed? Do the risks of relapse ever outweigh the benefit of reform? An example to consider are the France Shooters or the Boston Marathon Bomber.
- xenophonf 6y ago
  I explained my logic in the previous comment and don't feel the need to go into further detail. Demanding sources isn't really a logical argument, anyway.
- nicoburns 6y ago
  IMO the limits lie where someone isn't interested or can't be reformed. If I could turn the Boston Marathon Bombers into adovcates against extremism I would. And if successful they'd likely be very good at it because they'd understand the motives of other extremists better. It doesn't work with everyone (that's why we have prisons), but AFAIK it's not that uncommon for people to tunr their lives aeound in this way. Most criminals are not inherently sadistic: they do care about other people. Their upbringing and circumstances just lead them to a bad place and they ended up taking that out on someone else. That doesn't mean they aren't repsonsible for their actions or that they shouldn't be punished, but it doesn mean that they can often be rehabilitated with the right support. And that's generally a win-win scenario where it is possible.
Aeronwen 6y ago
>This would serve only to turn good people into that which they condemn. But they can reform.

btilly 6y ago

Per capita both rapes and murders happen in the USA at around 10x the rate that the respective crimes happen in Germany. Rather than give lectures about how stupid the German approach is, you should probably be asking questions about why their approach is working better in practice. If you're looking for the time to do so, I'd suggest reallocating the time you're currently spending imagining the pleasure of torturing an imaginary criminal in the aftermath of an imagined crime that hasn't actually happened.