5 ms·

Unfortunately BBC news really isn't that good any more. It's been on a long slow decline since about 2005 or so, and now the majority of their news programming

Unfortunately BBC news really isn't that good any more. It's been on a long slow decline since about 2005 or so, and now the majority of their news programming (with a few small but notable exceptions) are primarily cheering on the Tory government + ministers of the day.

andybak 6y ago
It sometimes seems like each side of the UK political spectrum is convinced that the BBC is irrevocably biased in favour of their opponents. The Tory right want to hamstring the BBC ("Bunch of Bloody Communists" used to be the witty cry) and jump on it at any opportunity.
- vidarh 6y ago
  That used to be more of a thing, but the recent governments have politicised the control of the BBC in a way that was not nearly as overt in the past.
- WolfRazu 6y ago
  I agree with this sentiment considerably. The BBC seems to get equal bashing from both sides of the political spectrum. I think therefore it's likely it's doing quite well in terms of impartiality.
  - hyperdunc 6y ago
    It's partial to the status quo.
    - arethuza 6y ago
      I'm a huge fan of the BBC but I couldn't help notice that during the last Scottish Independence Referendum there was definitely a bias - which I did conclude was simply a bias towards the current state of things.
  - cameronh90 6y ago
    For a laugh and good demonstration of this point, check out the replies Laura Kuennsberg gets to any vaguely controversial tweet. Usually a solid amount accusing her of towing the party line, being friends with Boris, Tory mouthpiece etc then another bunch accusing her of being an example of how the BBC is full of leftie communists who want to reverse brexit. Both equally vitriolic. The way she draws the hate from both sides is impressive.
- captainbland 6y ago
  It seems impossible to imagine the BBC being truly unbiased when the government occassionally likes to show it has power over the organisation by sabre-rattling over continuing to allow the TV license fee. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/09/boris-johnson-looking-at-abolishing-tv-licence-fee-for-bbc https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/09/boris-johns... Honestly I think it has a general pro-government-of-the-day-bias - as you say, 'used to be the witty cry', indeed! Under New Labour it was still broadly speaking pro-government (generally, it's never totally uncritical, just tending towards friendliness relative to the opposition of the day), it was just a different government with different values. But people don't notice when something stops being biased against them if they've already stopped paying attention to it because they were previously put off by their perception of its bias, so many of these older perceptions of its bias still exist. This creates the illusion that there's bias both ways, based on people's claims, and that it therefore must be 'balanced'.
  - aqsalose 6y ago
    I agree with your general thesis. However, this line got me thinking: >It seems impossible to imagine the BBC being truly unbiased Thought example. If there was a truly objective, unbiased source of information about political and physical reality, wouldn't it be far too valuable to put in charge of a news desk. They should be running the government in place of the parliament and politicians! Of course, if you find the idea somehow troubling, this is to demonstrate that unbiasedness is actually more difficult concept than is sometimes given credit for.
    - captainbland 6y ago
      Ah, but that wouldn't be enough in a democracy because people might choose to vote against it given the right conditions. Your best bet in that case might be to communicate it to the voters in some sort of news programme - taking us back to square one! But in all seriousness I do accept that unbiased outlets basically don't really exist and it is an impossibly high bar. The reason I talk about this in the way that I do is not as some kind of campaign against the BBC: on the contrary, I think public service broadcasting is in general a good thing and frequently produces higher quality content than the vast majority of privately owned outlets, at least in the UK, despite its biases. It's just that to me, everything has a bias, and it's important to understand what any particular outlet's biases are before you start accepting information from it. I'd say this is the one redeeming feature of our print media, despite how much crap they often produce, they are at least usually very open about their biases. You can get a lot of good information out of the BBC news and politics programmes, but I'd say you do have to use a fairly critical lens to get the most out of it.
- DaedPsyker 6y ago
  I did agree with this sentiment for a long time but I have seen a shift towards failing to challenge conservative policies. I'm also quite critical of the number of Conservative members that have been made controller. There is a bit too much of revolving door between tory communications and BBC at the minute.
- pjc50 6y ago
  I take this "both sides" argument as a sign that actually it's just bad - platforming the most extreme people from both sides in order to get the best fight, as if this was Jerry Springer without the chair throwing, rather than a sincere attempt to get at the truth of the matter. Edit: it's definitely going to get worse. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/bbc-richard-sharp-chair-conservatives-b1787399.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/bbc-richard-s... There is no way that anyone with that level of donation to any political party can ever pretend that they or their organisation is "impartial". Being a Brexiteer just makes it even more ludicrous and guarantees that all the ongoing problems and losses of Brexit will be hidden by the state broadcaster.
nailer 6y ago
> (the bCC) are primarily cheering on the Tory government + ministers of the day. I was about to say the opposite: https://order-order.com/2021/01/08/bbc-uses-old-picture-to-hype-dover-ports-story https://order-order.com/2021/01/08/bbc-uses-old-picture-to-h...
cjrp 6y ago
Their programmes quite often suffer from both-sidesism. They'll have a senior scientist on debating a conspiracy-theory-believing anti-vaxxer, as if they're both on the same level.
- da_big_ghey 6y ago
  While that's galling to see, it's targeted to convince the anti-vaxxer, or really the person who's on the fence. If they just dismiss the ideas, the anti-vaxxer says, "Oh look, the mainstream media covering up the truth again. Must be paid off by ${EVIL_BILLIONAIRE}." If he's given a chance, debates, and loses, that's a much better impression.
- vixen99 6y ago
  What's with this tendency to stick a binary label on every controversial issue? There are peer-reviewed valid concerns about these vaccines. Are the authors lumped into the anti-vaxxers category? Regularly watching BBC World I've yet to see the both-sideism you describe. As if on the same level? Well in relation to another bete noir, you'll likely get to see an interview with Greta T. (zero academic qualifications) while waiting interminably to hear any (usually edited) counter-position from (for instance, there are many others) Richard Lindzen (with around 200 peer-reviewed papers in atmospheric climatology, MIT emeritus professor) or Judith Curry (https://curry.eas.gatech.edu/currycv.html https://curry.eas.gatech.edu/currycv.html).
  - Chris2048 6y ago
    That's arguably not "both-sides-ism" so much as "straw-man-ism" if one side does not get the best representation. That said, it depends on the demographic you want to represent.
overscore 6y ago
BBC News has always been the de facto propaganda arm of the British government. It may only be apparent to you now, but their reporting has always been overly biased. Examples are any reporting on the Troubles (especially British crimes there), the Iraq war (especially the lead up and the Camp Stephen killings), and anything about Brexit.
- arethuza 6y ago
  Slightly odd then that one of the names for the BBC used by Brexit supporters was the "Brussels Broadcasting Company" because they thought it was far too pro-EU.
  - overscore 6y ago
    As I'm sure you're aware, the British government was pro-EU during the Brexit campaign.

andybak 6y ago

It sometimes seems like each side of the UK political spectrum is convinced that the BBC is irrevocably biased in favour of their opponents. The Tory right want to hamstring the BBC ("Bunch of Bloody Communists" used to be the witty cry) and jump on it at any opportunity.

vidarh 6y ago
That used to be more of a thing, but the recent governments have politicised the control of the BBC in a way that was not nearly as overt in the past.
WolfRazu 6y ago
I agree with this sentiment considerably. The BBC seems to get equal bashing from both sides of the political spectrum. I think therefore it's likely it's doing quite well in terms of impartiality.
- hyperdunc 6y ago
  It's partial to the status quo.
  - arethuza 6y ago
    I'm a huge fan of the BBC but I couldn't help notice that during the last Scottish Independence Referendum there was definitely a bias - which I did conclude was simply a bias towards the current state of things.
- cameronh90 6y ago
  For a laugh and good demonstration of this point, check out the replies Laura Kuennsberg gets to any vaguely controversial tweet. Usually a solid amount accusing her of towing the party line, being friends with Boris, Tory mouthpiece etc then another bunch accusing her of being an example of how the BBC is full of leftie communists who want to reverse brexit. Both equally vitriolic. The way she draws the hate from both sides is impressive.
captainbland 6y ago
It seems impossible to imagine the BBC being truly unbiased when the government occassionally likes to show it has power over the organisation by sabre-rattling over continuing to allow the TV license fee. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/09/boris-johnson-looking-at-abolishing-tv-licence-fee-for-bbc https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/09/boris-johns... Honestly I think it has a general pro-government-of-the-day-bias - as you say, 'used to be the witty cry', indeed! Under New Labour it was still broadly speaking pro-government (generally, it's never totally uncritical, just tending towards friendliness relative to the opposition of the day), it was just a different government with different values. But people don't notice when something stops being biased against them if they've already stopped paying attention to it because they were previously put off by their perception of its bias, so many of these older perceptions of its bias still exist. This creates the illusion that there's bias both ways, based on people's claims, and that it therefore must be 'balanced'.
- aqsalose 6y ago
  I agree with your general thesis. However, this line got me thinking: >It seems impossible to imagine the BBC being truly unbiased Thought example. If there was a truly objective, unbiased source of information about political and physical reality, wouldn't it be far too valuable to put in charge of a news desk. They should be running the government in place of the parliament and politicians! Of course, if you find the idea somehow troubling, this is to demonstrate that unbiasedness is actually more difficult concept than is sometimes given credit for.
  - captainbland 6y ago
    Ah, but that wouldn't be enough in a democracy because people might choose to vote against it given the right conditions. Your best bet in that case might be to communicate it to the voters in some sort of news programme - taking us back to square one! But in all seriousness I do accept that unbiased outlets basically don't really exist and it is an impossibly high bar. The reason I talk about this in the way that I do is not as some kind of campaign against the BBC: on the contrary, I think public service broadcasting is in general a good thing and frequently produces higher quality content than the vast majority of privately owned outlets, at least in the UK, despite its biases. It's just that to me, everything has a bias, and it's important to understand what any particular outlet's biases are before you start accepting information from it. I'd say this is the one redeeming feature of our print media, despite how much crap they often produce, they are at least usually very open about their biases. You can get a lot of good information out of the BBC news and politics programmes, but I'd say you do have to use a fairly critical lens to get the most out of it.
DaedPsyker 6y ago
I did agree with this sentiment for a long time but I have seen a shift towards failing to challenge conservative policies. I'm also quite critical of the number of Conservative members that have been made controller. There is a bit too much of revolving door between tory communications and BBC at the minute.
pjc50 6y ago
I take this "both sides" argument as a sign that actually it's just bad - platforming the most extreme people from both sides in order to get the best fight, as if this was Jerry Springer without the chair throwing, rather than a sincere attempt to get at the truth of the matter. Edit: it's definitely going to get worse. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/bbc-richard-sharp-chair-conservatives-b1787399.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/bbc-richard-s... There is no way that anyone with that level of donation to any political party can ever pretend that they or their organisation is "impartial". Being a Brexiteer just makes it even more ludicrous and guarantees that all the ongoing problems and losses of Brexit will be hidden by the state broadcaster.

nailer 6y ago

> (the bCC) are primarily cheering on the Tory government + ministers of the day. I was about to say the opposite: https://order-order.com/2021/01/08/bbc-uses-old-picture-to-hype-dover-ports-story https://order-order.com/2021/01/08/bbc-uses-old-picture-to-h...

cjrp 6y ago

Their programmes quite often suffer from both-sidesism. They'll have a senior scientist on debating a conspiracy-theory-believing anti-vaxxer, as if they're both on the same level.

da_big_ghey 6y ago
While that's galling to see, it's targeted to convince the anti-vaxxer, or really the person who's on the fence. If they just dismiss the ideas, the anti-vaxxer says, "Oh look, the mainstream media covering up the truth again. Must be paid off by ${EVIL_BILLIONAIRE}." If he's given a chance, debates, and loses, that's a much better impression.
vixen99 6y ago
What's with this tendency to stick a binary label on every controversial issue? There are peer-reviewed valid concerns about these vaccines. Are the authors lumped into the anti-vaxxers category? Regularly watching BBC World I've yet to see the both-sideism you describe. As if on the same level? Well in relation to another bete noir, you'll likely get to see an interview with Greta T. (zero academic qualifications) while waiting interminably to hear any (usually edited) counter-position from (for instance, there are many others) Richard Lindzen (with around 200 peer-reviewed papers in atmospheric climatology, MIT emeritus professor) or Judith Curry (https://curry.eas.gatech.edu/currycv.html https://curry.eas.gatech.edu/currycv.html).
- Chris2048 6y ago
  That's arguably not "both-sides-ism" so much as "straw-man-ism" if one side does not get the best representation. That said, it depends on the demographic you want to represent.

overscore 6y ago

BBC News has always been the de facto propaganda arm of the British government. It may only be apparent to you now, but their reporting has always been overly biased. Examples are any reporting on the Troubles (especially British crimes there), the Iraq war (especially the lead up and the Camp Stephen killings), and anything about Brexit.

arethuza 6y ago
Slightly odd then that one of the names for the BBC used by Brexit supporters was the "Brussels Broadcasting Company" because they thought it was far too pro-EU.
- overscore 6y ago
  As I'm sure you're aware, the British government was pro-EU during the Brexit campaign.