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I worked with some guys and I could never work out why they were doing things the way they were. I didn't really interact with what they were doing that much so

I worked with some guys and I could never work out why they were doing things the way they were. I didn't really interact with what they were doing that much so I just assumed they were experts in the area and I just didn't understand. Overtime I ended up working with them more and more and I started looking at what problems they were solving and how they were approaching it. The more I looked the more I didn't understand their approach, and slowly it dawned on me. They're not geniuses doing things at an incredibly advanced level that goes over my head. They were actually doing really stupid stuff and I didn't understand it, because it was insane. What they were really doing - in my opinion - was cargo cult software development practices. They'd worked with complex well designed systems that they hadn't really understood and were reproducing a weird facsimile of it. That's very much how I feel about Bitcoin. The more I see and the more I understand the less I believe any of the peoples explanations. Not least because if you ask 5 different Bitcoin proponents, you'll get 5 completely different answer about why it's valuable - from the unlikely (USD is going to inflate like we're living in Venezuela), to the untrue (BTC is decentralized), to the unprovable (BTC is digital gold). Sometimes the reason the explanations don't make sense is because they're not right - and the alternative that BTC is a bubble or manipulated, atleast needs to be considered.

rusticpenn 6y ago
I think they are all problems searching for solutions. Take smart contracts for instance, I am not sure if they are better than any BPM (Business Process Model) or cheaper.
G3n0t 6y ago
The question of value is one of the most fundamental ones in economic theory. It's got nothing to do with crypto currencies or technology in general. If you really want to understand why we consider Bitcoin valuable (and btw: fiat money, too) go google for "subjective theory of value" and, more specifically, "regression theorem".
- 2muchcoffeeman 6y ago
  But you can’t actually use Bitcoin for anything? The Regression Theorem, first proposed by Ludwig von Mises in his 1912 book The Theory of Money and Credit, states that the value of money can be traced back ("regressed") to the goods and services it obtains. In other words, money is backed by some commodity that has intrinsic value. Recently, there has been a debate about applying Regression Theorem to Cryptocurrency such as Bitcoin.[1] Since Bitcoin (for instance) is not backed by any commodity, it appears to fail the definition of a currency according to the Regression Theorem. Others hold the view[2] that Bitcoin does fit the definition as it is at once a payment system and money, with the source of value being the payment system.
  - G3n0t 6y ago
    > But you can’t actually use Bitcoin for anything? Well, in US and Europe this is certainly true. I've yet to see a reasonably large shop accepting bitcoins. But my vision is blurred by the fact I am living in a wealthy Western country that has a comparably free banking system. In other parts of the world, South America for example or Asia the situation is difficult for the average Joe to earn savings either due to galloping inflation or tight banking regulations. In those countries street markets are practically run by crypto currencies or derivatives.
jcbrand 6y ago
I think the reason why you're getting so many different answers (ponzi, digital-gold, digital-cash, hyperinflation-hedge etc.) is because Bitcoin is not the same as any other money/currency/asset in existence, and people are trying to figure out what it really is and what its uses are. Here's a fact though, Bitcoin is the hardest form of money ever created. With "hardest", I mean the most difficult to mint new quantities of it. That's why some people call it digital gold, because up until now, gold was the hardest form of money available. I think it's actually the most difficult for people in rich western countries to see the value proposition of Bitcoin, since they're used to having strong, stable currencies and rule of law. If you live in a country with 20% inflation and/or expropriation of assets, then Bitcoin is a way out. Bitcoin does have a payment system, but IMO people who compare it to Visa or think that it should scale to handle everyday transactions are misguided. Eventually only very large and very valuable transactions will be made directly on the blockchain, and other transactions will be done on higher layers, like the lightning network. Concerning Bitcoin being decentralized, it is, but I guess you dispute that due to a lot of hash power being in China. The Chinese miners are however individuals and not some uniform block who all think and act the same. Also, the mining pools are made up of individuals who can fairly easily switch to other pools at a moment's notice. Of all the cryptocurrencies, BTC appears to me to be the most decentralized.
lxgr 6y ago
> What they were really doing - in my opinion - was cargo cult software development practices. They'd worked with complex well designed systems that they hadn't really understood and were reproducing a weird facsimile of it. This is a very concise summary of most of the crypto/blockchain projects out there. Ideas are cheap, and calling out that you understand the CAP theorem and basic distributed systems theory doesn't mean you will be able to effectively solve problems as they practically arise. However, it makes a lot of sense if you consider who the target audience of such whitepapers is. (I'd argue it's not engineers.) I also don't think this generalization applies to all projects out there, but at this point, it seems like it's become more than a full-time job to see beyond the cargo culting, shiny landing pages and jargon-filled "whitepapers".

rusticpenn 6y ago

I think they are all problems searching for solutions. Take smart contracts for instance, I am not sure if they are better than any BPM (Business Process Model) or cheaper.

G3n0t 6y ago

The question of value is one of the most fundamental ones in economic theory. It's got nothing to do with crypto currencies or technology in general. If you really want to understand why we consider Bitcoin valuable (and btw: fiat money, too) go google for "subjective theory of value" and, more specifically, "regression theorem".

2muchcoffeeman 6y ago
But you can’t actually use Bitcoin for anything? The Regression Theorem, first proposed by Ludwig von Mises in his 1912 book The Theory of Money and Credit, states that the value of money can be traced back ("regressed") to the goods and services it obtains. In other words, money is backed by some commodity that has intrinsic value. Recently, there has been a debate about applying Regression Theorem to Cryptocurrency such as Bitcoin.[1] Since Bitcoin (for instance) is not backed by any commodity, it appears to fail the definition of a currency according to the Regression Theorem. Others hold the view[2] that Bitcoin does fit the definition as it is at once a payment system and money, with the source of value being the payment system.
- G3n0t 6y ago
  > But you can’t actually use Bitcoin for anything? Well, in US and Europe this is certainly true. I've yet to see a reasonably large shop accepting bitcoins. But my vision is blurred by the fact I am living in a wealthy Western country that has a comparably free banking system. In other parts of the world, South America for example or Asia the situation is difficult for the average Joe to earn savings either due to galloping inflation or tight banking regulations. In those countries street markets are practically run by crypto currencies or derivatives.

jcbrand 6y ago

I think the reason why you're getting so many different answers (ponzi, digital-gold, digital-cash, hyperinflation-hedge etc.) is because Bitcoin is not the same as any other money/currency/asset in existence, and people are trying to figure out what it really is and what its uses are. Here's a fact though, Bitcoin is the hardest form of money ever created. With "hardest", I mean the most difficult to mint new quantities of it. That's why some people call it digital gold, because up until now, gold was the hardest form of money available. I think it's actually the most difficult for people in rich western countries to see the value proposition of Bitcoin, since they're used to having strong, stable currencies and rule of law. If you live in a country with 20% inflation and/or expropriation of assets, then Bitcoin is a way out. Bitcoin does have a payment system, but IMO people who compare it to Visa or think that it should scale to handle everyday transactions are misguided. Eventually only very large and very valuable transactions will be made directly on the blockchain, and other transactions will be done on higher layers, like the lightning network. Concerning Bitcoin being decentralized, it is, but I guess you dispute that due to a lot of hash power being in China. The Chinese miners are however individuals and not some uniform block who all think and act the same. Also, the mining pools are made up of individuals who can fairly easily switch to other pools at a moment's notice. Of all the cryptocurrencies, BTC appears to me to be the most decentralized.

lxgr 6y ago

> What they were really doing - in my opinion - was cargo cult software development practices. They'd worked with complex well designed systems that they hadn't really understood and were reproducing a weird facsimile of it. This is a very concise summary of most of the crypto/blockchain projects out there. Ideas are cheap, and calling out that you understand the CAP theorem and basic distributed systems theory doesn't mean you will be able to effectively solve problems as they practically arise. However, it makes a lot of sense if you consider who the target audience of such whitepapers is. (I'd argue it's not engineers.) I also don't think this generalization applies to all projects out there, but at this point, it seems like it's become more than a full-time job to see beyond the cargo culting, shiny landing pages and jargon-filled "whitepapers".