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For the same reason, smallish countries seem to be much more democratic and closer to the people (e.g., Switzerland). The "sweet spot" seems to be between 5 an

For the same reason, smallish countries seem to be much more democratic and closer to the people (e.g., Switzerland). The "sweet spot" seems to be between 5 and 10 million people maybe?

username90 6y ago
Politicians would rather run a large country though so they tend to push for centralization.
notahacker 6y ago
The list of countries between 5 and 10 million includes more countries noted for human rights violations or recent civil wars than liberal democracies. Even success stories in maximising their geographic advantages like Singapore hardly qualify as 'more democratic' The factor Switzerland seems to have in common with other liberal democracies of that size is being based in Europe, something it also shares with a larger liberal democracies. Exceptional features like the canton system, regular referenda and not going to war are unique to Switzerland (and arguably not as attractive as they superficially sound)
- enriquto 6y ago
  > The list of countries between 5 and 10 million includes more countries noted for human rights violations or recent civil wars than liberal democracies. Citation needed? Anyhow, the interesting measure is the total number of people living in small vs. large countries noted for human right violations or wars, not the total number of countries with that condition. I agree that Singapore is a hellish dystopia, but Switzerland's referenda and its strong stance on not going to war (but keeping a strong army for defense) are undeniable attractive points. These are the European countries with population between 4 and 9 million: Austria, Switzerland, Bulgaria, Serbia, Denmark, Finland, Slovakia, Norway, Ireland, Croatia. That's quite a "dream team" in my view!
  - notahacker 6y ago
    The governments of larger states like Britain, France, Spain and Germany are not without problems, but we're not casting envious glances at how Serbia and Bulgaria are run, never mind Belarus :) Outside Europe you've got a group which includes central American states famed for frequent coups and revolutions, nations synonymous with conflict like Libya, Sierra Leone and Israel/Palestine, extremely authoritarian post USSR central Asian states, a rare communist holdout in Laos, the absolute monarchy of the UAE and Togo which might as well be having been ruled by the same family for its entire history. Singapore isn't a 'hellish dystopia', its positively paradise compared with most of them, despite the obvious limits to its democracy. Costa Rica's last half century is positive too, I guess.
    - enriquto 6y ago
      > Britain, France, Spain and Germany are not without problems, but we're not casting envious glances Well, I do. Having lived most of my life under the governments of France and Spain, I can say that yes, I do indeed cast envious glances to smaller countries were things are easier to change and apparently more democratic.
      - notahacker 6y ago
        You won't find many political scientists or Bulgarians or Serbs agreeing that things are easier to change in those countries. And even most people voting for the other candidate didn't change the official result of Belarus' last election.
bllguo 6y ago
don't know about putting a number on things, but imo it boils down to how easy it is to maintain a shared identity and purpose. In general I think it's a universal truth that things are fundamentally and nonlinearly more difficult at scale

For the same reason, smallish countries seem to be much more democratic and closer to the people (e.g., Switzerland). The "sweet spot" seems to be between 5 and 10 million people maybe?

username90 6y ago

Politicians would rather run a large country though so they tend to push for centralization.

notahacker 6y ago

The list of countries between 5 and 10 million includes more countries noted for human rights violations or recent civil wars than liberal democracies. Even success stories in maximising their geographic advantages like Singapore hardly qualify as 'more democratic' The factor Switzerland seems to have in common with other liberal democracies of that size is being based in Europe, something it also shares with a larger liberal democracies. Exceptional features like the canton system, regular referenda and not going to war are unique to Switzerland (and arguably not as attractive as they superficially sound)

enriquto 6y ago
> The list of countries between 5 and 10 million includes more countries noted for human rights violations or recent civil wars than liberal democracies. Citation needed? Anyhow, the interesting measure is the total number of people living in small vs. large countries noted for human right violations or wars, not the total number of countries with that condition. I agree that Singapore is a hellish dystopia, but Switzerland's referenda and its strong stance on not going to war (but keeping a strong army for defense) are undeniable attractive points. These are the European countries with population between 4 and 9 million: Austria, Switzerland, Bulgaria, Serbia, Denmark, Finland, Slovakia, Norway, Ireland, Croatia. That's quite a "dream team" in my view!
- notahacker 6y ago
  The governments of larger states like Britain, France, Spain and Germany are not without problems, but we're not casting envious glances at how Serbia and Bulgaria are run, never mind Belarus :) Outside Europe you've got a group which includes central American states famed for frequent coups and revolutions, nations synonymous with conflict like Libya, Sierra Leone and Israel/Palestine, extremely authoritarian post USSR central Asian states, a rare communist holdout in Laos, the absolute monarchy of the UAE and Togo which might as well be having been ruled by the same family for its entire history. Singapore isn't a 'hellish dystopia', its positively paradise compared with most of them, despite the obvious limits to its democracy. Costa Rica's last half century is positive too, I guess.
  - enriquto 6y ago
    > Britain, France, Spain and Germany are not without problems, but we're not casting envious glances Well, I do. Having lived most of my life under the governments of France and Spain, I can say that yes, I do indeed cast envious glances to smaller countries were things are easier to change and apparently more democratic.
    - notahacker 6y ago
      You won't find many political scientists or Bulgarians or Serbs agreeing that things are easier to change in those countries. And even most people voting for the other candidate didn't change the official result of Belarus' last election.

bllguo 6y ago

don't know about putting a number on things, but imo it boils down to how easy it is to maintain a shared identity and purpose. In general I think it's a universal truth that things are fundamentally and nonlinearly more difficult at scale