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> no way for them to prove I was actually owning a television (Emphasis mine) This "playing fast and loose with language" that they do (and that you inadverte

by ohazi 6y ago

> no way for them to prove I was actually owning a television (Emphasis mine) This "playing fast and loose with language" that they do (and that you inadvertently did too, just now) makes me so irrationally angry. Why would the burden of proof be that low? They need (should need?) to prove that you received broadcast television, not that you simply owned a TV. We hear these stories about TV detector vans as if finding a TV set was ever sufficient evidence.

thaumasiotes 6y ago
> We hear these stories about TV detector vans as if finding a TV set was ever sufficient evidence. The vans would be detecting radio activity; there's nothing to detect if the TV is off.
spuz 6y ago
In the UK, you must pay if you are capable of receiving live TV, not only if you do receive live TV. Even if it was never switch on, a TV that is plugged into an aerial qualifies as meeting that requirement.
- imprecision 6y ago
  You can have and use TV and not pay, so long as you can reasonably show you are not receiving live broadcasts (if it ever came to a warrant being issued). Not having it plugged into an aerial and the channel presets not tuned is considered proof enough. I'd guess with more and more watching via the internet they probably have far more success catching people watch live broadcasts via IP addresses and ISP logs these days though.
- gambiting 6y ago
  That is absolutely 1000000% not true. You only have to pay the TV Licence if you ever watch live TV, not if you merely have a televion set. I've never paid the fee because I don't watch live TV, ever, and when you go on the TV licence page to fill out the form why you don't need a licence, one of the options on the form is "I only use my TV for games consoles, netflix, dvd players etc". So it's not some "clever hack" - the law specifically allows for not paying the licence fee if you own a TV set but don't watch live TV.
  - MaxBarraclough 6y ago
    It's unhelpful to disagree with someone on a point of fact and to decline to provide a decent source. The result is that you've given the reader no reason to take your word over the other person's. From what I can tell, your account of things is accurate. On the website [0][1][2] the requirements aren't concerned at all with what equipment you own or with how it's set up, only with the act of watching or recording live television broadcasts over any technology, including over the Internet. I imagine it still wouldn't hurt to disconnect your TV from the means to show live broadcasts, for the tiny off-chance things end up in court. I think spuz's account may have been accurate in pre-Internet days, but this seems harder to verify. [0] https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/topics/Live-TV-and-how-you-watch-it https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/topics/L... [1] https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/faqs/FAQ99 https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/faqs/FAQ99 [2] https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/about/legislation-and-policy-AB9#refund1 https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/about/legislation-and-policy-A...
    - nailer 6y ago
      > Live TV means any programme you watch or record as it’s being shown on TV or live on an online TV service. I find the wording here fascinating. Is watching a live stream over the YouTube app on my TV 'live TV'? Is watching a UFC event on the UFC app? What about the website? What is TV? Is a monitor? A monitor with an aerial? Video content transmitted over certain bands?
      - M2Ys4U 6y ago
        >I find the wording here fascinating. Is watching a live stream over the YouTube app on my TV 'live TV'? Is watching a UFC event on the UFC app? What about the website? If it's broadcast simultaneously by other means (e.g. satellite, cable, terrestrial transmitter etc.) it counts as "live TV".
        nailer 6y ago
        What if an event is on YouTube but also shown by satellite, cable, terrestrial transmitter etc? Does that mean I owe a license fee for YouTube? Am I obliged to check before every video? (Obviously these are ridiculous hypothetical questions, and I don't expect answers, but the policy itself is ridiculous)
- ohazi 6y ago
  I own a pile of antennas for ham radio, I own a bunch of TV tuners, because they're usable as software controlled ham radio receivers, I own a television, and I own a laptop that sometimes gets plugged into that television. That might make me look pretty guilty, but my TV isn't connected to an antenna, and I don't watch broadcast TV. The bar for evidence of a violation needs to be higher. It's possible to own all of the equipment without ever having violated the BBC's licensing rule.

by ohazi 6y ago

thaumasiotes 6y ago

> We hear these stories about TV detector vans as if finding a TV set was ever sufficient evidence. The vans would be detecting radio activity; there's nothing to detect if the TV is off.

spuz 6y ago

In the UK, you must pay if you are capable of receiving live TV, not only if you do receive live TV. Even if it was never switch on, a TV that is plugged into an aerial qualifies as meeting that requirement.

imprecision 6y ago
You can have and use TV and not pay, so long as you can reasonably show you are not receiving live broadcasts (if it ever came to a warrant being issued). Not having it plugged into an aerial and the channel presets not tuned is considered proof enough. I'd guess with more and more watching via the internet they probably have far more success catching people watch live broadcasts via IP addresses and ISP logs these days though.
gambiting 6y ago
That is absolutely 1000000% not true. You only have to pay the TV Licence if you ever watch live TV, not if you merely have a televion set. I've never paid the fee because I don't watch live TV, ever, and when you go on the TV licence page to fill out the form why you don't need a licence, one of the options on the form is "I only use my TV for games consoles, netflix, dvd players etc". So it's not some "clever hack" - the law specifically allows for not paying the licence fee if you own a TV set but don't watch live TV.
- MaxBarraclough 6y ago
  It's unhelpful to disagree with someone on a point of fact and to decline to provide a decent source. The result is that you've given the reader no reason to take your word over the other person's. From what I can tell, your account of things is accurate. On the website [0][1][2] the requirements aren't concerned at all with what equipment you own or with how it's set up, only with the act of watching or recording live television broadcasts over any technology, including over the Internet. I imagine it still wouldn't hurt to disconnect your TV from the means to show live broadcasts, for the tiny off-chance things end up in court. I think spuz's account may have been accurate in pre-Internet days, but this seems harder to verify. [0] https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/topics/Live-TV-and-how-you-watch-it https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/topics/L... [1] https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/faqs/FAQ99 https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/faqs/FAQ99 [2] https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/about/legislation-and-policy-AB9#refund1 https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/about/legislation-and-policy-A...
  - nailer 6y ago
    > Live TV means any programme you watch or record as it’s being shown on TV or live on an online TV service. I find the wording here fascinating. Is watching a live stream over the YouTube app on my TV 'live TV'? Is watching a UFC event on the UFC app? What about the website? What is TV? Is a monitor? A monitor with an aerial? Video content transmitted over certain bands?
    - M2Ys4U 6y ago
      >I find the wording here fascinating. Is watching a live stream over the YouTube app on my TV 'live TV'? Is watching a UFC event on the UFC app? What about the website? If it's broadcast simultaneously by other means (e.g. satellite, cable, terrestrial transmitter etc.) it counts as "live TV".
      - nailer 6y ago
        What if an event is on YouTube but also shown by satellite, cable, terrestrial transmitter etc? Does that mean I owe a license fee for YouTube? Am I obliged to check before every video? (Obviously these are ridiculous hypothetical questions, and I don't expect answers, but the policy itself is ridiculous)
ohazi 6y ago
I own a pile of antennas for ham radio, I own a bunch of TV tuners, because they're usable as software controlled ham radio receivers, I own a television, and I own a laptop that sometimes gets plugged into that television. That might make me look pretty guilty, but my TV isn't connected to an antenna, and I don't watch broadcast TV. The bar for evidence of a violation needs to be higher. It's possible to own all of the equipment without ever having violated the BBC's licensing rule.