3 ms·

You have a source on this? I’m much more inclined to think it’s just religions imposing order on people as a litmus test for conformity and followership. Mormon

You have a source on this? I’m much more inclined to think it’s just religions imposing order on people as a litmus test for conformity and followership. Mormons have the Word of Wisdom, Islam has haram and halal, Catholics have Lent, Good Friday, Ash Wednesday, etc... They don’t seem to follow any prescriptive health benefit. It’s restriction for the sake of conformity.

bawolff 6y ago
Religion is complicated and built up over thousands of years. I am sure some rules are to designate an in-group/unity, some are based on the best belief at the time for the public good, some are probably arbitrary dictates from whomever happened to be in charge at the time. I think it would be a mistake to lump all the rules together (just as it would be a mistake to lump all of our modern laws together). Some are also self obvious, for example, i believe one of the kosher rules is dont eat animals that have been poisioned. As far as pork specificly - i imagine nobody really knows, but there's some speculation at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_restrictions_on_the_consumption_of_pork#Interpretations_of_restrictions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_restrictions_on_the_...
tzs 6y ago
There was a chapter in a game theory book I read that talked about this. It said that rituals and rules can serve as a way to raise the cost of being in the religion, which can help keep people who don't really believe in the religion out. The book had a cartoon showing a man standing in front of a "Church Picnic" sign and he had a thought balloon that said "I'll pretend to love Jesus for a free hamburger!". The tangible benefits of being accepted as being a member of a church can be considerable, far beyond the occasional free hamburger at a church picnic. Members of a church will often when they need services or need to buy things look first to providers that are in their church. If all it takes to convince them you are one of them is showing up at services occasionally and giving a small donation now and then, that is a price many non-believers would pay. Annoying rituals and rules raise that price. For the true believers who are in the church because they believe that it is the only way to not spend an eternity being tortured in hell, church is worth it even with the onerous rituals and rules. For the person who is only there because he thinks it will get him a few more customers for his landscaping business, the rules and rituals can make it not worth it.
- shakezula 6y ago
  > The tangible benefits of being accepted as being a member of a church can be considerable My step father is quite conservative and he and I don’t see eye to eye on much, but one time he pointed out how the declining religiosity of my generation meant an increased reliance on the state for social programs that the church once filled the need for, and I’ve never been able to stop seeing that function of religion since.
  - bawolff 6y ago
    When thinking about religion, i think its important to keep in mind that way back in the day it was basically the state
    - shakezula 6y ago
      Even today. It's still pretty much the state where I live. Utah's legislature is more or less at the whim of the LDS church. I get what you're saying, though. Church and state both have a shared goal of social welfare, to some degree.
spoonjim 6y ago
I’m not saying all restrictions are for public health benefit... but a lot of them are. Specifically, the kosher dietary rules (no pork, no shellfish which could have red tide, no rabbits, complicated guidelines on how to sever an animal’s neck without hitting the spinal cord, no animals that died of natural causes, separate utensils for meat and dairy) make a lot of sense in the environment of 2000 years ago.

bawolff 6y ago

Religion is complicated and built up over thousands of years. I am sure some rules are to designate an in-group/unity, some are based on the best belief at the time for the public good, some are probably arbitrary dictates from whomever happened to be in charge at the time. I think it would be a mistake to lump all the rules together (just as it would be a mistake to lump all of our modern laws together). Some are also self obvious, for example, i believe one of the kosher rules is dont eat animals that have been poisioned. As far as pork specificly - i imagine nobody really knows, but there's some speculation at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_restrictions_on_the_consumption_of_pork#Interpretations_of_restrictions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_restrictions_on_the_...

tzs 6y ago

There was a chapter in a game theory book I read that talked about this. It said that rituals and rules can serve as a way to raise the cost of being in the religion, which can help keep people who don't really believe in the religion out. The book had a cartoon showing a man standing in front of a "Church Picnic" sign and he had a thought balloon that said "I'll pretend to love Jesus for a free hamburger!". The tangible benefits of being accepted as being a member of a church can be considerable, far beyond the occasional free hamburger at a church picnic. Members of a church will often when they need services or need to buy things look first to providers that are in their church. If all it takes to convince them you are one of them is showing up at services occasionally and giving a small donation now and then, that is a price many non-believers would pay. Annoying rituals and rules raise that price. For the true believers who are in the church because they believe that it is the only way to not spend an eternity being tortured in hell, church is worth it even with the onerous rituals and rules. For the person who is only there because he thinks it will get him a few more customers for his landscaping business, the rules and rituals can make it not worth it.

shakezula 6y ago
> The tangible benefits of being accepted as being a member of a church can be considerable My step father is quite conservative and he and I don’t see eye to eye on much, but one time he pointed out how the declining religiosity of my generation meant an increased reliance on the state for social programs that the church once filled the need for, and I’ve never been able to stop seeing that function of religion since.
- bawolff 6y ago
  When thinking about religion, i think its important to keep in mind that way back in the day it was basically the state
  - shakezula 6y ago
    Even today. It's still pretty much the state where I live. Utah's legislature is more or less at the whim of the LDS church. I get what you're saying, though. Church and state both have a shared goal of social welfare, to some degree.

spoonjim 6y ago

I’m not saying all restrictions are for public health benefit... but a lot of them are. Specifically, the kosher dietary rules (no pork, no shellfish which could have red tide, no rabbits, complicated guidelines on how to sever an animal’s neck without hitting the spinal cord, no animals that died of natural causes, separate utensils for meat and dairy) make a lot of sense in the environment of 2000 years ago.