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What is the actual behavior we see? Higher incidence of domestic violence, drug abuse/dependency/violence. And much more. It's hard to say definitive, concrete

What is the actual behavior we see? Higher incidence of domestic violence, drug abuse/dependency/violence. And much more. It's hard to say definitive, concrete examples because trauma is so personal. The same things can cause two divergent reactions in other people. As a random example from a single friend, I had a friend whose dad died via suicide by cop after he became addicted to drugs he prescribed as a small town's ER doctor. She saw her dad murdered by her friend's father from her living room window. This friend said I had it worse than she. While I definitely have my own scars, I don't think they're anywhere close to what she experienced. I'll share how I was ill-equipped for life. Please note that while I was never put in foster care myself, I likely should have been; the only thing that stopped me going into foster care is a terribly overburdened and underfunded Child Protective Services department. Every single one of the complaints alleged against my family (of which there were several) were true. The social workers and CPS department as a whole simply has too high a caseload and I fell through the cracks. For better or worse. I never had anyone around me that modeled how to successfully handle stress and anger. So I constantly walked around in fight or flight mode for all of my teen years and most of my twenties. It led to more than a few of assaults (both as a profession--I bounced a bit--and otherwise). I also made many other impulsive decisions, because I only knew how to solve interpersonal problems one way. It literally took me until I was in my early thirties and hospitalized with what I thought was a heart attack to figure out I had problems with anxiety, ultra-vigalence, and a hair-trigger temper with associated anti-social behaviors. That's how I was ill-equipped for life in normal society. And again I wasn't even in foster care like some of my closest friends and loved ones. Just one of those times I let my fists do the talking for me could've led to someone geting knocked out, falling the wrong way, and dying after landing with their head against a curb. That's manslaughter (at best). It's blind, stupid luck that I eventually got my shit together and work at a FAANG rather than shooting you a kite from behind bars. I have someone very close to me who did go into the foster care system, and was placed in what amounted to a juvenile jail. She had a 'bunkmate' who burned their entire house down in an attempt to kill her family. And then the bunkmate tried to burn others while in the foster care facility. Now my friend has troubles sleeping; especially in areas around which she's unfamiliar (e.g. hotels) or around people she doesn't know well (e.g. B&Bs, friend's houses, etc.).

omginternets 6y ago
Thanks for this, it really helps give some perspective. It's incredibly difficult for those of us blessed with stable homes and happy childhoods to fully grasp the degree to which such things make us who we are. We can kind of intuit it, and it makes rational sense some of the time, but it's often hard to see the connection between e.g. "I had to pull my alcoholic mom out of a ditch" and "I'm fighting with people all the time". These two things feel disconnected, but it's clear from the literature and from stories like this one that they are not. >It literally took me until I was in my early thirties and hospitalized with what I thought was a heart attack to figure out I had problems with anxiety, ultra-vigalence, and a hair-trigger temper with associated anti-social behaviors. Out of curiosity, how does one get from this place to gainful employment in a FAANG company? I realize much of it has to do with luck, but surely there were a number of "stages" during this recovery/relearning process. Did you go to some sort of therapy? What were the major steps in becoming well-adjusted? For example, do you remember the first time you noticed your hair-trigger temper rising, and managed to get it under control? >I bounced a bit I actually did too! In my 20's I was very involved in my local MMA gym, and bouncing seemed like a 'cool' way to make some beer money. All in all it was a pretty good gig for me because I actually had very little exposure to violence before then, and this was a way for me to confront a pretty severe aversion to conflict that I'd been carrying with me for some time. As a matter of fact, this was very much the reason I'd gotten into MMA to begin with, and bouncing was a way to move from an environment with highly-controlled violence (the ring) to a less controlled one (a bar where I had backup, and a technical advantage in a fight). I ultimately ended up in the military doing MOUT operations, but that's a different story, and I digress. My reason for bringing this up is that I remember being quite shocked and horrified at the unbridled violence in some of my colleagues. You basically had three types of bouncers: 1. Calm professionals looking to get the job done and go home 2. Cocky assholes looking to be the protagonist of a badass story, but nevertheless with some self-control 3. Tough-as-nails guys with zero self-control or ability to direct their violence usefully I think I was mostly in the first category (though shamefully with about 30% of the second category ... I did have something to prove...). It was the third category that horrified me because it seemed like these people weren't even fixing to get into fights; they just couldn't prevent themselves from falling into a blind wrath at the slightest provocation. There's this idea in evolutionary psychology that the emotion of disgust relates to things that should be inside the body (blood, vomit, feces, saliva, etc) finding themselves outside the body. In that specific sense, I think I was disgusted by the third category of colleague -- this terrible, ugly rage that should have stayed inside was somehow spilling out. Quite a few of those guys ended up getting charged with battery over stuff they did on the job, and it all seemed so damn preventable and absurd. I realize that I'm speaking with someone who may have been this third type of person, and I sincerely hope you don't feel judged. My reason for bringing it up is that I've never fully understood what was going on when these (otherwise super nice!) guys went off the rails. I always suspected there was something like what you described, but never managed to figure out when -- let alone why -- the switch would flip. It was truly terrifying stuff, even for someone who knows their way around a fight, because it all seemed so random and bestial. As an MMA fighter, I was used to clear rules about when the fight started and ended, but with these guys, I would worry that I'd gotten on their nerves without realizing it, and that I'd have a bottle broken over my head before I even knew the fight had begun. In any case, I'm truly, honestly happy that you seem to be doing well, and I really appreciate this conversation.

omginternets 6y ago

Thanks for this, it really helps give some perspective. It's incredibly difficult for those of us blessed with stable homes and happy childhoods to fully grasp the degree to which such things make us who we are. We can kind of intuit it, and it makes rational sense some of the time, but it's often hard to see the connection between e.g. "I had to pull my alcoholic mom out of a ditch" and "I'm fighting with people all the time". These two things feel disconnected, but it's clear from the literature and from stories like this one that they are not. >It literally took me until I was in my early thirties and hospitalized with what I thought was a heart attack to figure out I had problems with anxiety, ultra-vigalence, and a hair-trigger temper with associated anti-social behaviors. Out of curiosity, how does one get from this place to gainful employment in a FAANG company? I realize much of it has to do with luck, but surely there were a number of "stages" during this recovery/relearning process. Did you go to some sort of therapy? What were the major steps in becoming well-adjusted? For example, do you remember the first time you noticed your hair-trigger temper rising, and managed to get it under control? >I bounced a bit I actually did too! In my 20's I was very involved in my local MMA gym, and bouncing seemed like a 'cool' way to make some beer money. All in all it was a pretty good gig for me because I actually had very little exposure to violence before then, and this was a way for me to confront a pretty severe aversion to conflict that I'd been carrying with me for some time. As a matter of fact, this was very much the reason I'd gotten into MMA to begin with, and bouncing was a way to move from an environment with highly-controlled violence (the ring) to a less controlled one (a bar where I had backup, and a technical advantage in a fight). I ultimately ended up in the military doing MOUT operations, but that's a different story, and I digress. My reason for bringing this up is that I remember being quite shocked and horrified at the unbridled violence in some of my colleagues. You basically had three types of bouncers: 1. Calm professionals looking to get the job done and go home 2. Cocky assholes looking to be the protagonist of a badass story, but nevertheless with some self-control 3. Tough-as-nails guys with zero self-control or ability to direct their violence usefully I think I was mostly in the first category (though shamefully with about 30% of the second category ... I did have something to prove...). It was the third category that horrified me because it seemed like these people weren't even fixing to get into fights; they just couldn't prevent themselves from falling into a blind wrath at the slightest provocation. There's this idea in evolutionary psychology that the emotion of disgust relates to things that should be inside the body (blood, vomit, feces, saliva, etc) finding themselves outside the body. In that specific sense, I think I was disgusted by the third category of colleague -- this terrible, ugly rage that should have stayed inside was somehow spilling out. Quite a few of those guys ended up getting charged with battery over stuff they did on the job, and it all seemed so damn preventable and absurd. I realize that I'm speaking with someone who may have been this third type of person, and I sincerely hope you don't feel judged. My reason for bringing it up is that I've never fully understood what was going on when these (otherwise super nice!) guys went off the rails. I always suspected there was something like what you described, but never managed to figure out when -- let alone why -- the switch would flip. It was truly terrifying stuff, even for someone who knows their way around a fight, because it all seemed so random and bestial. As an MMA fighter, I was used to clear rules about when the fight started and ended, but with these guys, I would worry that I'd gotten on their nerves without realizing it, and that I'd have a bottle broken over my head before I even knew the fight had begun. In any case, I'm truly, honestly happy that you seem to be doing well, and I really appreciate this conversation.