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It results in what is referred to as "Attachment Disorder" and is generally considered the worst possible psychological state. Especially where it is "Reactive"

It results in what is referred to as "Attachment Disorder" and is generally considered the worst possible psychological state. Especially where it is "Reactive" (ie. the problem started because of CPS involvement, because of being separated from figures the child was attached to), the worst possible option. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactive_attachment_disorder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactive_attachment_disorder Reality is that, certainly on average, CPS is worse than neglect, worse than abuse. Reality seems to be that what parent figures provide for children is simply a predictable, stable environment. It does not matter if said environment has violence (especially if it doesn't directly harm the child). If the child is well provided for (ie. even poverty or neglect to the point of irregular availability of food). The vast majority of cases, by the way, are neglect, which means in practice the child being left alone for longer periods of time (hours, not days). Needless to say, this is not going to seriously damage any child over the age of 3 or 4. The same even with violence against a child. The not-so-common-but-considered-typical image of a father who gets drunk on fridays and then yells or even hits a child with flimsy excuses, but otherwise cares for them is just not going to do the damage even a single CPS placement does. Just to be clear: none of those things are good for a child. But they do not prevent the formation of a stable adult. CPS and child placement (and especially re-placing them on average 14 times before they grow up) prevents the formation of a stable adult in something like 45-60% of cases. I guess CPS just feels they "need to do something". The result of that need is tens of thousands of destroyed lives per year. But nobody can be blamed for doing nothing ...

lazyasciiart 6y ago
Attachment disorders are a fairly controversial subject and many former foster youth and advocate groups believe that they are largely garbage diagnoses for kids who are understandably angry, distrustful and unwilling to for a relationship with strange new carers. Among other things, actually diagnosing RAD requires that it show up before five years old, because it is in those few early years that a child develops their ability to attach to a caregiver. As for experience in CPS care - 50% of kids return to their parents, and (not exactly the same) 50% are in care for a year or less. The average number of placements is maybe 2 - are you perhaps thinking of the average number among children who never leave care? As for the idea that "even a single CPS placement" is worse than being left with violent parents - I've never seen anything supporting this but if you have some I'd love to read it.
- candiodari 6y ago
  There are a number of studies that point this out. This is the biggest by far: https://sci-hub.se/10.1257/aer.97.5.1583 https://sci-hub.se/10.1257/aer.97.5.1583 > As for the idea that "even a single CPS placement" is worse than being left with violent parents - I've never seen anything supporting this but if you have some I'd love to read it. Well, reactive attachment syndrome is the expected outcome for something like 60% of placements, and 80%+ of kids that are placed more than once. These multiple replacements are not exactly rare. Apparently there is a small group where the first placement remains stable for a long time which has reasonable results, and there is a large group that keep getting placed again and again where the outcomes are terrible. The vast majority of parents aren't violent but neglectful. And even then, our standards of neglect have moved quite a bit. These days some interventions are done because of "bad" food in lunch boxes (think: mars bars, not sandwiches). The long term consequences of neglect and violence that isn't random are "parentification. TLDR: kids start acting like adults at a very young age, and obviously with less than ideal success. Think 7 year olds that make sure the rent is paid and their little sister sees a doctor once a year, or when she's ill. These kids will fight for their independence, for obvious reasons, at a very young age. This can, and does, lead to depression and less than ideal school results (because in that situation the kids don't consider school very important and of course caring for others takes time that can't be spent on homework or hobbies or even actually going to class when there's a crisis). The worst outcomes are observed where the kid takes total control of the home situation and the KID abuses this power. But even that is nothing compared to even mild attachment syndrome. The worse cases of reactive attachment disorder, well, from Wikipedia: "Actions that otherwise would be classified as conduct disorder, such as mutilating animals, harming siblings or other family, or harming themselves intentionally" And of course, it is anecdotal and probably lacks validity but if you look up mass murderers, whilst diagnosis is missing their family background is really quite common and are the sort of circumstances that you'd expect to generate RAD. Obviously, that outcome is very rare, but does exist. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parentification https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parentification I would say, read both entries and judge for yourself which is the worse one. But I don't think there will be much disagreement.
  - lazyasciiart 6y ago
flyinglizard 6y ago
I don’t have the means to judge what you were saying but I found this reasoning fascinating nonetheless.

lazyasciiart 6y ago

Attachment disorders are a fairly controversial subject and many former foster youth and advocate groups believe that they are largely garbage diagnoses for kids who are understandably angry, distrustful and unwilling to for a relationship with strange new carers. Among other things, actually diagnosing RAD requires that it show up before five years old, because it is in those few early years that a child develops their ability to attach to a caregiver. As for experience in CPS care - 50% of kids return to their parents, and (not exactly the same) 50% are in care for a year or less. The average number of placements is maybe 2 - are you perhaps thinking of the average number among children who never leave care? As for the idea that "even a single CPS placement" is worse than being left with violent parents - I've never seen anything supporting this but if you have some I'd love to read it.

candiodari 6y ago
There are a number of studies that point this out. This is the biggest by far: https://sci-hub.se/10.1257/aer.97.5.1583 https://sci-hub.se/10.1257/aer.97.5.1583 > As for the idea that "even a single CPS placement" is worse than being left with violent parents - I've never seen anything supporting this but if you have some I'd love to read it. Well, reactive attachment syndrome is the expected outcome for something like 60% of placements, and 80%+ of kids that are placed more than once. These multiple replacements are not exactly rare. Apparently there is a small group where the first placement remains stable for a long time which has reasonable results, and there is a large group that keep getting placed again and again where the outcomes are terrible. The vast majority of parents aren't violent but neglectful. And even then, our standards of neglect have moved quite a bit. These days some interventions are done because of "bad" food in lunch boxes (think: mars bars, not sandwiches). The long term consequences of neglect and violence that isn't random are "parentification. TLDR: kids start acting like adults at a very young age, and obviously with less than ideal success. Think 7 year olds that make sure the rent is paid and their little sister sees a doctor once a year, or when she's ill. These kids will fight for their independence, for obvious reasons, at a very young age. This can, and does, lead to depression and less than ideal school results (because in that situation the kids don't consider school very important and of course caring for others takes time that can't be spent on homework or hobbies or even actually going to class when there's a crisis). The worst outcomes are observed where the kid takes total control of the home situation and the KID abuses this power. But even that is nothing compared to even mild attachment syndrome. The worse cases of reactive attachment disorder, well, from Wikipedia: "Actions that otherwise would be classified as conduct disorder, such as mutilating animals, harming siblings or other family, or harming themselves intentionally" And of course, it is anecdotal and probably lacks validity but if you look up mass murderers, whilst diagnosis is missing their family background is really quite common and are the sort of circumstances that you'd expect to generate RAD. Obviously, that outcome is very rare, but does exist. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parentification https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parentification I would say, read both entries and judge for yourself which is the worse one. But I don't think there will be much disagreement.
- lazyasciiart 6y ago

flyinglizard 6y ago

I don’t have the means to judge what you were saying but I found this reasoning fascinating nonetheless.