4 ms·

I remember reading this the last time and it was posted and I still think the core failure is that the author didn't actually recognize the issue he was solving

I remember reading this the last time and it was posted and I still think the core failure is that the author didn't actually recognize the issue he was solving. He thought the problem was choosing the most effective medicine when the real problem was decision fatigue looking at endless shelves of things that all seem to do the same thing. Those two problems sort of look the same, but the latter cannot be resolved by selling the tool to doctors in their offices. The tool should have been designed (IMO) as a consumer tool, either a kiosk at CVS/Walgreens/pharmacies to assist with OTC med selection or possibly as a website with ads/referrals. I would absolutely choose a pharmacy over another as a result of them having something to help through that process, especially when I have a headache.

ihumanable 6y ago
I'm grateful for this comment because it put into words the thing I couldn't. I'm reading the epiphany part of this post, to quote: You have a mind-shattering headache. You're standing in the aisle of your local CVS, massaging your temples while scanning the shelves for something—anything—to make make the pain stop. What do you reach for? Tylenol? Advil? Aleve? Most people, I imagine, grab whatever's cheapest, or closest, or whatever they always use. But if you're scrupulous enough to ask Google for the best painkiller, here's how your friendly neighborhood tech behemoth would answer: [Screenshot of Google Search Results] Oh thanks Google that's just all of them. ---end quote--- The author immediately identifies that this isn't a real problem, by their own admissions that "Most people, I imagine, grab whatever's cheapest, or closest, or whatever they always use." Yea, most people when they have a headache and know that most painkillers on the market will result in about the same degree of relief, don't bother to cross reference a medical meta-analysis, because they have a headache and if the $0.01 worth of aspirin doesn't make it feel better they will just take a second pill and eat the penny. I like the author's conclusion about how to quickly validate business ideas, but even in the title the author still holds firm to the belief that this was a "fantastic startup idea" even though reality seems to think otherwise. Was this such a great idea, do most consumers actually want to review a meta-analysis when picking their OTC medicine, or do most people just try a few things, get influenced by advertising, and purchase the most reasonably priced medicine they think will help. I am just a single data point, but I don't normally feel naked and unscrupulous when I just read the symptoms that a medicine treats and pick one, and that strategy generally works just fine. Solution in search of a problem and also in search of humans that act in this weird atypical fashion.
- PeterisP 6y ago
  Waiit - "You have a mind-shattering headache. [..] What do you reach for? " - isn't this where you're supposed or even required to ask the pharmacist? You know, the person who has the years-long training to know drug effects, limitations and interactions with other drugs?
  - eightysixfour 6y ago
    I'd say yes but the last time I was truly sick (flu) my roommate went to the store and asked the pharmacist what to give me and came back home with a bunch of homeopathic sugar pills. My trust in other humans is pretty low for this sort of stuff.
    - jkaplowitz 6y ago
      That's pretty awful. On the flipside, here in Montreal I've been very impressed with my local pharmacists at the nearby chain drugstore. They pay attention to drug interactions to the extent of flagging a risk the doctor missed but in retrospect admitted is valid, give me a consult every time I get a new medicine, remember things well enough that I was once asked how my wife was doing with her own recovery from something, and so on. I used to live in the US and I'm certainly not used to that either. I wish that kind of great pharmacist care were more widespread as a norm.
    - greggman3 6y ago
      That's sad In many countries the pharmacist is a doctor and they are there to handle simple cases. Thailand, Singapore, Malaysia all seem this way. VS the USA (and Japan?) where all the pharmacist does is handout the medicine some other doctor prescribed.
    - perl4ever 6y ago
      For some reason, people seem to have evolved to consider nicotine products (for instance) more opposed to the abstract mission of a drugstore than homeopathic products. I have never smoked or vaped or anything, but it's the homeopathic OTC meds that viscerally upset me, that they should be allowed on the shelves.
angrydev 6y ago
> The tool should have been designed (IMO) as a consumer tool, either a kiosk at CVS/Walgreens/pharmacies to assist with OTC med selection or possibly as a website with ads/referrals. Sure but... would you really need any clinical data to make this valuable? A pharmacy could just make a decision tree with some common symptoms and do the same thing based on their own recommendations. Including data from studies is a neat enhancement but not necessary IMO. I think perhaps there's greater value in the platform or methodology the author built for doing this type of meta analysis for medication. Could it be applied to other research fields I wonder. Could the software be licensed?
- eightysixfour 6y ago
  > A pharmacy could just make a decision tree with some common symptoms and do the same thing based on their own recommendations. Sure, and I’d go to a pharmacy who did this based off of science instead of whoever paid for an end cap advertisement that month.
dugmartin 6y ago
My million dollar medicine idea: print the dosage info in huge type on the bottle (e.g. "Take 2 every 8 hours") with more detailed info in smaller type on the back side of a peel away label. The only time I use headache medicine is when I have a headache and that is the exact time I don't want to be trying to read a huge block of 6 point type to see how many I should take. (A couple of times in the past I've written the dosage in Sharpie on the piece of masking tape that I wrap around the bottle but I'd rather it was done for me as I'm lazy)
wpietri 6y ago
I'd be skeptical that would work. A friend did a ton of user testing of improvements to a price-comparison site back when those were the rage. With some frequency the engineers would come up with a way to help people make a better buying decision. E.g., picking a TV is a problem, so they'd make a wizard that would ask you questions and then give you a recommendation. Problem solved, right? Alas, no. Turns out most of these user guidance things wouldn't help, because people had no reason to trust the thing. They might go through the process, but their behavior didn't change. I'd expect to see the same effect with a kiosk. Most wouldn't engage, and those who did wouldn't weight the recommendation very highly. A website would have an even deeper trust problem, and would add an SEO problem on top. Imagine a referral is worth $1 on average and you spend $0.50 on coming up with good answers, $0.49 on making sure you're on the first page of Google results, and take $0.01 in profit. You'll very quickly have a competitor with that spends $0 on research and $0.99 on being ahead of you on Google. Sure, their data will be garbage, but the page will be just as convincing to somebody who doesn't know anything, which is your target market. I suspect the real outcome, as with many would-be startups, is that this is a feature, not a business. Somebody like Wirecutter or Consumer Reports could turn this into solid content that would be a nice addition to what they have already. They've already built a trust relationship with their users, and they don't have to specifically find people in the (very rare) moment of choosing a new medication.
- ag_user123 6y ago
  It's true people don't trust new user guidance things, but if your product is useful you can build trust over time or not?
anjc 6y ago
>The tool should have been designed (IMO) as a consumer tool, either a kiosk at CVS/Walgreens/pharmacies to assist with OTC med selection or possibly as a website with ads/referrals. I would absolutely choose a pharmacy over another as a result of them having something to help through that process, especially when I have a headache. You're making a similar mistake to OP. You're considering the end user, the pharmacy, but are now ignoring manufacturers, suppliers and wholesalers. Why would a major supplier provide their goods to a pharmacy who ranks them last in their kiosks? Why wouldn't they give preferential pricing to pharmacists that give better rankings? Perhaps large chain pharmacists have buying power here, but they don't need help attracting customers. Perhaps small pharmacists could benefit from this system to attract customers, but if the system ranks Pfizer products last they wont be in business for long. Point is, perhaps you want it, and perhaps you think pharmacists should want it for you, but the entire supply chain does not want it.

ihumanable 6y ago

I'm grateful for this comment because it put into words the thing I couldn't. I'm reading the epiphany part of this post, to quote: You have a mind-shattering headache. You're standing in the aisle of your local CVS, massaging your temples while scanning the shelves for something—anything—to make make the pain stop. What do you reach for? Tylenol? Advil? Aleve? Most people, I imagine, grab whatever's cheapest, or closest, or whatever they always use. But if you're scrupulous enough to ask Google for the best painkiller, here's how your friendly neighborhood tech behemoth would answer: [Screenshot of Google Search Results] Oh thanks Google that's just all of them. ---end quote--- The author immediately identifies that this isn't a real problem, by their own admissions that "Most people, I imagine, grab whatever's cheapest, or closest, or whatever they always use." Yea, most people when they have a headache and know that most painkillers on the market will result in about the same degree of relief, don't bother to cross reference a medical meta-analysis, because they have a headache and if the $0.01 worth of aspirin doesn't make it feel better they will just take a second pill and eat the penny. I like the author's conclusion about how to quickly validate business ideas, but even in the title the author still holds firm to the belief that this was a "fantastic startup idea" even though reality seems to think otherwise. Was this such a great idea, do most consumers actually want to review a meta-analysis when picking their OTC medicine, or do most people just try a few things, get influenced by advertising, and purchase the most reasonably priced medicine they think will help. I am just a single data point, but I don't normally feel naked and unscrupulous when I just read the symptoms that a medicine treats and pick one, and that strategy generally works just fine. Solution in search of a problem and also in search of humans that act in this weird atypical fashion.

PeterisP 6y ago
Waiit - "You have a mind-shattering headache. [..] What do you reach for? " - isn't this where you're supposed or even required to ask the pharmacist? You know, the person who has the years-long training to know drug effects, limitations and interactions with other drugs?
- eightysixfour 6y ago
  I'd say yes but the last time I was truly sick (flu) my roommate went to the store and asked the pharmacist what to give me and came back home with a bunch of homeopathic sugar pills. My trust in other humans is pretty low for this sort of stuff.
  - jkaplowitz 6y ago
    That's pretty awful. On the flipside, here in Montreal I've been very impressed with my local pharmacists at the nearby chain drugstore. They pay attention to drug interactions to the extent of flagging a risk the doctor missed but in retrospect admitted is valid, give me a consult every time I get a new medicine, remember things well enough that I was once asked how my wife was doing with her own recovery from something, and so on. I used to live in the US and I'm certainly not used to that either. I wish that kind of great pharmacist care were more widespread as a norm.
  - greggman3 6y ago
    That's sad In many countries the pharmacist is a doctor and they are there to handle simple cases. Thailand, Singapore, Malaysia all seem this way. VS the USA (and Japan?) where all the pharmacist does is handout the medicine some other doctor prescribed.
  - perl4ever 6y ago
    For some reason, people seem to have evolved to consider nicotine products (for instance) more opposed to the abstract mission of a drugstore than homeopathic products. I have never smoked or vaped or anything, but it's the homeopathic OTC meds that viscerally upset me, that they should be allowed on the shelves.

angrydev 6y ago

> The tool should have been designed (IMO) as a consumer tool, either a kiosk at CVS/Walgreens/pharmacies to assist with OTC med selection or possibly as a website with ads/referrals. Sure but... would you really need any clinical data to make this valuable? A pharmacy could just make a decision tree with some common symptoms and do the same thing based on their own recommendations. Including data from studies is a neat enhancement but not necessary IMO. I think perhaps there's greater value in the platform or methodology the author built for doing this type of meta analysis for medication. Could it be applied to other research fields I wonder. Could the software be licensed?

eightysixfour 6y ago
> A pharmacy could just make a decision tree with some common symptoms and do the same thing based on their own recommendations. Sure, and I’d go to a pharmacy who did this based off of science instead of whoever paid for an end cap advertisement that month.

dugmartin 6y ago

My million dollar medicine idea: print the dosage info in huge type on the bottle (e.g. "Take 2 every 8 hours") with more detailed info in smaller type on the back side of a peel away label. The only time I use headache medicine is when I have a headache and that is the exact time I don't want to be trying to read a huge block of 6 point type to see how many I should take. (A couple of times in the past I've written the dosage in Sharpie on the piece of masking tape that I wrap around the bottle but I'd rather it was done for me as I'm lazy)

wpietri 6y ago

I'd be skeptical that would work. A friend did a ton of user testing of improvements to a price-comparison site back when those were the rage. With some frequency the engineers would come up with a way to help people make a better buying decision. E.g., picking a TV is a problem, so they'd make a wizard that would ask you questions and then give you a recommendation. Problem solved, right? Alas, no. Turns out most of these user guidance things wouldn't help, because people had no reason to trust the thing. They might go through the process, but their behavior didn't change. I'd expect to see the same effect with a kiosk. Most wouldn't engage, and those who did wouldn't weight the recommendation very highly. A website would have an even deeper trust problem, and would add an SEO problem on top. Imagine a referral is worth $1 on average and you spend $0.50 on coming up with good answers, $0.49 on making sure you're on the first page of Google results, and take $0.01 in profit. You'll very quickly have a competitor with that spends $0 on research and $0.99 on being ahead of you on Google. Sure, their data will be garbage, but the page will be just as convincing to somebody who doesn't know anything, which is your target market. I suspect the real outcome, as with many would-be startups, is that this is a feature, not a business. Somebody like Wirecutter or Consumer Reports could turn this into solid content that would be a nice addition to what they have already. They've already built a trust relationship with their users, and they don't have to specifically find people in the (very rare) moment of choosing a new medication.

ag_user123 6y ago
It's true people don't trust new user guidance things, but if your product is useful you can build trust over time or not?

anjc 6y ago

>The tool should have been designed (IMO) as a consumer tool, either a kiosk at CVS/Walgreens/pharmacies to assist with OTC med selection or possibly as a website with ads/referrals. I would absolutely choose a pharmacy over another as a result of them having something to help through that process, especially when I have a headache. You're making a similar mistake to OP. You're considering the end user, the pharmacy, but are now ignoring manufacturers, suppliers and wholesalers. Why would a major supplier provide their goods to a pharmacy who ranks them last in their kiosks? Why wouldn't they give preferential pricing to pharmacists that give better rankings? Perhaps large chain pharmacists have buying power here, but they don't need help attracting customers. Perhaps small pharmacists could benefit from this system to attract customers, but if the system ranks Pfizer products last they wont be in business for long. Point is, perhaps you want it, and perhaps you think pharmacists should want it for you, but the entire supply chain does not want it.