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The article title isn't very informative; you might as well say, "Elite colleges, largely for the top." Elite how? Academically? Income? Family connections?

The article title isn't very informative; you might as well say, "Elite colleges, largely for the top." Elite how? Academically? Income? Family connections? The real injustice, IMO, isn't in the higher education system. It's in the public K-12 system. I didn't attend a private high school, but I might as well have---my parents live in an area with sky-high property values, and the high school I attended solicits citizen donations pretty vigorously. I think we had maybe three black kids in the school, and I'm sure our graduation rate was over 90%. I have a very hard time believing that Joe Inner City had a chance of getting the same secondary education I did. I don't know what the solution is, but I'm pretty sure it starts way before college.

hugh3 15y ago
I don't know what the solution is, but I'm pretty sure it starts way before college I'd be inclined to segregate the schools. No, not by race, by IQ scores. Test the kids at the age of ten and split 'em up into (say) five groups depending on how well they do, and then truck 'em off to schools strategically placed to have catchment areas spread over a range of socioeconomic areas. The alphas would get the full-on deal, the best education that our species can cram into seven short years. The betas would get a slightly easier set of coursework but still be expected to be fully functional and capable of office work. The epsilons would get remedial literacy and life skills and taught to productively follow orders in order to make it through life without becoming a burglar or meth addict. It may sound cruel, but is it any worse than expecting an IQ 80 doofus to write an essay on Shakespeare?
- ipince 15y ago
  Well, you could argue that some "IQ segregation" already happens, by virtue of having highly selective private schools, advanced placement, etc. I think the students (or parents when they're too young) should have choice though, and be able to choose how challenging they want their education to be. With high-priced private schools, this is not really the case though.
- robobenjie 15y ago
  "They work much harder than we do, because they're so frightfully clever. I'm really awfuly glad I'm a Beta, because I don't work so hard." -Brave New World
- zwieback 15y ago
  That's sort of how it worked in Germany when I grew up there. At age 10 everyone gets a series of tests that decides whether they go to first, second or third tier schools. Only the first tier (9 years of high school) gets you admission to university. The second tier is meant to shuttle you toward vocational education, which is very good in Germany, and the third tier basically turns you into a laborer. There is some lateral movement between schools but it's pretty rare and in most states the schools are physically separated. I'm not sure what it's like now but at the time it seemed like the system didn't really sort by IQ but much more by the class you were already in. In principle it should be easy to move up but the reality is much different.
- MaysonL 15y ago
  10 is way too late: take a look at Harlem Children's Zone, and "Baby College". You have to start with prenatal care and parent education to really make a difference.
enjo 15y ago
Then there are schools like Little Rock Central (which I use as an example merely because I'm familiar with it). They routinely pump out national merits and presidential scholars. The quality of the education, if you choose to engage in it, is through the roof. Of course the bulk of their students choose the wrong route. I do wonder if there is a model tucked away in that school, however. They seem to do a really good job of helping their brightest students succeed. I'm not really familiar with what they do, but I'd be interested to know more for sure. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Rock_Central_High_School http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Rock_Central_High_School
forkandwait 15y ago
Bourdieu would say (in his ridiculously convoluted french way) that modern capitalism maintains a class system via inculturation at the family/ childhood level, where a lifetime of test scores and social skills is grooved into a person and determines the rest of his life chances. This allows us to pretend that the current class system is due purely to fair competition between adults by not looking into the family and the school system, while at the same time ensuring a steady stream of disadvantaged to work in the factories and kill themselves buying junk food, beer, and cigarettes. And the few that climb out are considered the evidence that "anybody" could do it, "if they really tried" -- hogwash! It's a little bit more fair -- and a lot more complicated and subtle -- than when William the Conqueror came over, pointed a sword at the local Anglo-Saxons, and said basically "You will be a peasant or I will kill you and your family. That's fair, don't you think?" Of course the Anglo-Saxons did this to the Celts and the left-over Romans, etc, etc, etc. So, no, its not a fair world. Marx was super naive about socialism, but he was a great historian, and he said "History is the history of class struggle". Not quite that simple (Marx, like us all, loved his simple answers), but one should look for the class struggle angle in every situation.

hugh3 15y ago

I don't know what the solution is, but I'm pretty sure it starts way before college I'd be inclined to segregate the schools. No, not by race, by IQ scores. Test the kids at the age of ten and split 'em up into (say) five groups depending on how well they do, and then truck 'em off to schools strategically placed to have catchment areas spread over a range of socioeconomic areas. The alphas would get the full-on deal, the best education that our species can cram into seven short years. The betas would get a slightly easier set of coursework but still be expected to be fully functional and capable of office work. The epsilons would get remedial literacy and life skills and taught to productively follow orders in order to make it through life without becoming a burglar or meth addict. It may sound cruel, but is it any worse than expecting an IQ 80 doofus to write an essay on Shakespeare?

ipince 15y ago
Well, you could argue that some "IQ segregation" already happens, by virtue of having highly selective private schools, advanced placement, etc. I think the students (or parents when they're too young) should have choice though, and be able to choose how challenging they want their education to be. With high-priced private schools, this is not really the case though.
robobenjie 15y ago
"They work much harder than we do, because they're so frightfully clever. I'm really awfuly glad I'm a Beta, because I don't work so hard." -Brave New World
zwieback 15y ago
That's sort of how it worked in Germany when I grew up there. At age 10 everyone gets a series of tests that decides whether they go to first, second or third tier schools. Only the first tier (9 years of high school) gets you admission to university. The second tier is meant to shuttle you toward vocational education, which is very good in Germany, and the third tier basically turns you into a laborer. There is some lateral movement between schools but it's pretty rare and in most states the schools are physically separated. I'm not sure what it's like now but at the time it seemed like the system didn't really sort by IQ but much more by the class you were already in. In principle it should be easy to move up but the reality is much different.
MaysonL 15y ago
10 is way too late: take a look at Harlem Children's Zone, and "Baby College". You have to start with prenatal care and parent education to really make a difference.

enjo 15y ago

Then there are schools like Little Rock Central (which I use as an example merely because I'm familiar with it). They routinely pump out national merits and presidential scholars. The quality of the education, if you choose to engage in it, is through the roof. Of course the bulk of their students choose the wrong route. I do wonder if there is a model tucked away in that school, however. They seem to do a really good job of helping their brightest students succeed. I'm not really familiar with what they do, but I'd be interested to know more for sure. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Rock_Central_High_School http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Rock_Central_High_School

forkandwait 15y ago

Bourdieu would say (in his ridiculously convoluted french way) that modern capitalism maintains a class system via inculturation at the family/ childhood level, where a lifetime of test scores and social skills is grooved into a person and determines the rest of his life chances. This allows us to pretend that the current class system is due purely to fair competition between adults by not looking into the family and the school system, while at the same time ensuring a steady stream of disadvantaged to work in the factories and kill themselves buying junk food, beer, and cigarettes. And the few that climb out are considered the evidence that "anybody" could do it, "if they really tried" -- hogwash! It's a little bit more fair -- and a lot more complicated and subtle -- than when William the Conqueror came over, pointed a sword at the local Anglo-Saxons, and said basically "You will be a peasant or I will kill you and your family. That's fair, don't you think?" Of course the Anglo-Saxons did this to the Celts and the left-over Romans, etc, etc, etc. So, no, its not a fair world. Marx was super naive about socialism, but he was a great historian, and he said "History is the history of class struggle". Not quite that simple (Marx, like us all, loved his simple answers), but one should look for the class struggle angle in every situation.