4 ms·

Well the solution isn’t to gloss over it for them and just say “no the institutions ARE good.” I mean who is going to actually accept that. If we want the othe

by gretch 6y ago

Well the solution isn’t to gloss over it for them and just say “no the institutions ARE good.” I mean who is going to actually accept that. If we want the other side to understand, we have to speak to them in a way that they’ll understand it. When you say “with these kinds of attitudes, how can we expect to come out of this with our country intact?” I genuinely believe you are doing harm to your own cause because you have shown that you have an ulterior motive to honest seeking of the truth. If I were to believe that parts of the country were truly and deeply corrupt, why would I want to remain intact with that? Don’t you cut tumors out. Also if I didn’t know you personally, I’d probably conclude that you are someone in power trying to keep the status quo and maintain power. I’d be pretty unlikely to consider your arguments at that point.

abduhl 6y ago
How do you square your statements of "If we want the other side to understand, we have to speak to them in a way that they’ll understand it." with "If I were to believe that parts of the country were truly and deeply corrupt, why would I want to remain intact with that? Don’t you cut tumors out." and "I’d probably conclude that you are someone in power trying to keep the status quo and maintain power. I’d be pretty unlikely to consider your arguments at that point."
- gretch 6y ago
  I was playing the role of many possible counter-arguments to the parent comment. None of the views I expressed were actually representative of me. I was saying 'if I believed...' because I think many people on the other side actually believe what I put out there and if parent wants to make change, he/she'll have to acknowledge it. I personally don't actually believe that the country is irreparably divided and I try to bridge divides when I see it. But I'm sure millions of americans are jaded beyond that point and take the positions I offered in my original comment.
monoideism 6y ago
> Also if I didn’t know you personally, I’d probably conclude that you are someone in power trying to keep the status quo and maintain power. Ha, I'm broke because of serious chronic+acute illnesses that have bankrupted me, and not currently working. So I'd love to see a better medical system. But I've also worked in a conflict/post-conflict zone (several decades ago) so I know how much worse things can get - and that's where we're heading right now unless we can turn things around. And tons of institutions need reform. But mostly not because of corruption, but rather poor incentives and archaic and poorly-thought-out laws. Our system is far from insalvageable. But way to ad hominem, not engaging any further with you.

by gretch 6y ago

abduhl 6y ago

How do you square your statements of "If we want the other side to understand, we have to speak to them in a way that they’ll understand it." with "If I were to believe that parts of the country were truly and deeply corrupt, why would I want to remain intact with that? Don’t you cut tumors out." and "I’d probably conclude that you are someone in power trying to keep the status quo and maintain power. I’d be pretty unlikely to consider your arguments at that point."

gretch 6y ago
I was playing the role of many possible counter-arguments to the parent comment. None of the views I expressed were actually representative of me. I was saying 'if I believed...' because I think many people on the other side actually believe what I put out there and if parent wants to make change, he/she'll have to acknowledge it. I personally don't actually believe that the country is irreparably divided and I try to bridge divides when I see it. But I'm sure millions of americans are jaded beyond that point and take the positions I offered in my original comment.

monoideism 6y ago

> Also if I didn’t know you personally, I’d probably conclude that you are someone in power trying to keep the status quo and maintain power. Ha, I'm broke because of serious chronic+acute illnesses that have bankrupted me, and not currently working. So I'd love to see a better medical system. But I've also worked in a conflict/post-conflict zone (several decades ago) so I know how much worse things can get - and that's where we're heading right now unless we can turn things around. And tons of institutions need reform. But mostly not because of corruption, but rather poor incentives and archaic and poorly-thought-out laws. Our system is far from insalvageable. But way to ad hominem, not engaging any further with you.