5 ms·

I knew there were people who don't see anything, but I would have thought anybody could do 6. I can imagine far more complex 3D stuff (more than rotating, also

by alan_n 6y ago

I knew there were people who don't see anything, but I would have thought anybody could do 6. I can imagine far more complex 3D stuff (more than rotating, also complex movements) but it's blurry unless I designed it or know the thing/place well (like my house), but I can "zoom" into things to get more detail. You learn something new every day I guess. I wonder if this can be used to predict what fields someone goes into or could go into that they'd be good at (engineering, etc).

saberdancer 6y ago
I asked half a dozen friends. Only one could see more than 1, and in that case they reported only 3. Most of us are in engineering. The one that could see 3 is closest to an artist out of us all. Those of us with strongest engineering background reported 0. Would love to see if there is more to it.
- bonoboTP 6y ago
  As I said in another comment I think it's a communication issue. I guess it doesn't literally float in front of their eyes as part of the world for those who say 6. Perhaps a better test is how difficult someone finds these exercises: http://www.geom.uiuc.edu/docs/education/institute91/handouts/node20.html http://www.geom.uiuc.edu/docs/education/institute91/handouts... It's less ambiguous than the star thing.
  - TeMPOraL 6y ago
    > As I said in another comment I think it's a communication issue. I guess it doesn't literally float in front of their eyes as part of the world for those who say 6. That's the thing, though: apparently the same thing was being said about internal monologue historically, with people assuming claims contrary to their experience are just turns of a phrase. Until, the legend goes, somebody got enough academics in the same room that they finally realized inner voice is a thing that not everyone has. So I'm leaning towards believing that people claiming they can mock their own visual input actually can do it. (The hardware for that is already there. Despite being 1-2 when awake, every now and then I wake up remembering a dream that was a clear 6.)
    - saberdancer 6y ago
      Not sure if it connected, but this internal monologue is another thing that I fail to understand. I think I do not have internal monologue, but this is especially hard to describe. Perhaps there is some crossover between people who can't visualize and those who do not experience internal monologue. Another aspect I've known for a long time is that I have bad "situational" memory. I have good trivia/history memory but very bad memory about personal situations or events. I am not sure about faces, I didn't really notice myself struggling with it but hard to really judge.
      - TeMPOraL 6y ago
        Makes me wish somebody would do a study of all these facets simultaneously and put the answers on a scatterplot. For me, it is: - 1-2 / 6 on the "mind's eye" scale - perfectly working internal monologue; almost all of my conscious thinking involves me "hearing" sentences in my head (I don't experience actual auditory stimulus, but I can "hear" the words, the cadence, and sometimes even tone) - good trivia/history memory - bad situational memory, bad memory for people's names - I can only recognize faces of people with whom I dealt for prolonged periods of time
        bonoboTP 6y ago
        > perfectly working internal monologue; almost all of my conscious thinking involves me "hearing" sentences in my head (I don't experience actual auditory stimulus, but I can "hear" the words, the cadence, and sometimes even tone Do you feel like it's always "you" who is actively saying the monologue, or is it being "dictated" from the outside, you are listening but not saying it internally? Perhaps by an imaginary friend, Jesus, aliens, gods, buddhas, whatever?
        TeMPOraL 6y ago
        It's always just me. I never had an imaginary friend. I never felt a different entity speaking in my head. It's always my own voice in my head saying things or conversing with itself.
- alan_n 6y ago
  Mmm, strange. I do some minor diy stuff and I can't imagine not imagining stuff. I do draw on paper to brainstorm and use CAD but most of the design problem solving goes on in my head. But then I am also an artist... Although more because of this than the other way around. Although drawing has further trained this ability, I have accurate detailed childhood (~5-6y) memories (of houses, schools, objects, etc) from before I was drawing consistently enough for it to matter (high school). I wonder, can people who see 0 imagine movement if they're seeing the object right in front of them? And if they can draw 3d objects, can they still do so if they close their eyes?

by alan_n 6y ago

saberdancer 6y ago

I asked half a dozen friends. Only one could see more than 1, and in that case they reported only 3. Most of us are in engineering. The one that could see 3 is closest to an artist out of us all. Those of us with strongest engineering background reported 0. Would love to see if there is more to it.

bonoboTP 6y ago
As I said in another comment I think it's a communication issue. I guess it doesn't literally float in front of their eyes as part of the world for those who say 6. Perhaps a better test is how difficult someone finds these exercises: http://www.geom.uiuc.edu/docs/education/institute91/handouts/node20.html http://www.geom.uiuc.edu/docs/education/institute91/handouts... It's less ambiguous than the star thing.
- TeMPOraL 6y ago
  > As I said in another comment I think it's a communication issue. I guess it doesn't literally float in front of their eyes as part of the world for those who say 6. That's the thing, though: apparently the same thing was being said about internal monologue historically, with people assuming claims contrary to their experience are just turns of a phrase. Until, the legend goes, somebody got enough academics in the same room that they finally realized inner voice is a thing that not everyone has. So I'm leaning towards believing that people claiming they can mock their own visual input actually can do it. (The hardware for that is already there. Despite being 1-2 when awake, every now and then I wake up remembering a dream that was a clear 6.)
  - saberdancer 6y ago
    Not sure if it connected, but this internal monologue is another thing that I fail to understand. I think I do not have internal monologue, but this is especially hard to describe. Perhaps there is some crossover between people who can't visualize and those who do not experience internal monologue. Another aspect I've known for a long time is that I have bad "situational" memory. I have good trivia/history memory but very bad memory about personal situations or events. I am not sure about faces, I didn't really notice myself struggling with it but hard to really judge.
    - TeMPOraL 6y ago
      Makes me wish somebody would do a study of all these facets simultaneously and put the answers on a scatterplot. For me, it is: - 1-2 / 6 on the "mind's eye" scale - perfectly working internal monologue; almost all of my conscious thinking involves me "hearing" sentences in my head (I don't experience actual auditory stimulus, but I can "hear" the words, the cadence, and sometimes even tone) - good trivia/history memory - bad situational memory, bad memory for people's names - I can only recognize faces of people with whom I dealt for prolonged periods of time
      - bonoboTP 6y ago
        > perfectly working internal monologue; almost all of my conscious thinking involves me "hearing" sentences in my head (I don't experience actual auditory stimulus, but I can "hear" the words, the cadence, and sometimes even tone Do you feel like it's always "you" who is actively saying the monologue, or is it being "dictated" from the outside, you are listening but not saying it internally? Perhaps by an imaginary friend, Jesus, aliens, gods, buddhas, whatever?
        TeMPOraL 6y ago
        It's always just me. I never had an imaginary friend. I never felt a different entity speaking in my head. It's always my own voice in my head saying things or conversing with itself.
alan_n 6y ago
Mmm, strange. I do some minor diy stuff and I can't imagine not imagining stuff. I do draw on paper to brainstorm and use CAD but most of the design problem solving goes on in my head. But then I am also an artist... Although more because of this than the other way around. Although drawing has further trained this ability, I have accurate detailed childhood (~5-6y) memories (of houses, schools, objects, etc) from before I was drawing consistently enough for it to matter (high school). I wonder, can people who see 0 imagine movement if they're seeing the object right in front of them? And if they can draw 3d objects, can they still do so if they close their eyes?